Brian Leigh from B.T. Leighs
The focal point of this episode centers around our engaging dialogue with Brian Lee from BT Lee's Barbecue, highlighting his remarkable journey in the barbecue sauce and rub industry. We delve into the intricacies of his business, discussing the challenges and triumphs he has encountered while navigating the competitive landscape of barbecue products. Brian shares insights into the evolution of his brand, emphasizing the importance of innovative flavors and the significance of maintaining a gluten-free promise to his consumers. Furthermore, we explore the shifting trends within the culinary world, particularly the rising demand for all-natural ingredients and the implications for production practices. As we converse, we reflect on the broader implications for small businesses striving to carve out a niche in an increasingly saturated market, underscoring the dedication required to succeed in this dynamic field.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- BT Lee's Barbecues
- Ace Hardware
- Meyer
- Kroger
- Publix
- Three Little Pigs
- Heritage Steel
- Hammerstahl
- Painted Hills
Mentioned in this episode:
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This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
It's time for Barbecue Nation with JT So fire up your grill, light the charcoal, and get your smoker cooking.
Speaker A:Now from the Turn It, Don't Burn it studios in Portland, here's jt.
Speaker B:Hey, everybody.
Speaker B:Welcome to the nation.
Speaker B:Barbecue Nation.
Speaker B:Oh, that's right.
Speaker B:I'm JT along with hall of famer Leanne Whippen.
Speaker B:Coming to you from our respective Turn It, Don't Burn it studios on both ends of the country.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker B:And our guest today is kind of in the middle of the country, Brian Lee from BT lay's Barbecues.
Speaker B:And Brian's been on the show before and we always enjoyed his company, so we invited him back.
Speaker B:Hey, buddy.
Speaker D:Pleasure to be back.
Speaker C:How are you?
Speaker D:I'm so honored to be.
Speaker D:To be hosted once again.
Speaker B:So what's going on in the Bluegrass State?
Speaker D:Well, there's a bourbon, there's horses.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:There's BT Lee's.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker D:We've.
Speaker D:I don't know if you know this, but it's hot down here.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Either hot or it's rainy.
Speaker D:That's what it feels like.
Speaker C:I'm very Florida.
Speaker B:Indeed.
Speaker B:I. I spent a lot of time in Kentucky, Brian.
Speaker B:I. I know the feeling.
Speaker B:You might say.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:But no, we're doing very well.
Speaker D:We're banging away, just growing leaps and bounds.
Speaker C:That's good news.
Speaker C:That's really good news.
Speaker C:And what do you attribute that to?
Speaker D:My wife.
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker D:My director of art and marketing.
Speaker D:She has taken it upon herself to hustle us up some salespeople.
Speaker D:So we've got multiple sales teams out there now pushing our brand and banging on doors that we hitherto could not bang on.
Speaker D:So there we are.
Speaker D:Yeah, it's.
Speaker D:It's been a wild experience.
Speaker D:I. I feel like.
Speaker D:I feel like this business grows different every six months.
Speaker D:It feels like.
Speaker D:Yeah, like, like it used to be.
Speaker D:I'm making sauce on a stove in a 24, 20 quart pot, and now it's a 45 gallon steam kettle.
Speaker D: And now it's: Speaker D:And now it's who knows how large.
Speaker D:And, you know, talking to individual people is now talking to buyers, and that's a whole nother ball game.
Speaker C:And what stores are you in right now?
Speaker C:Too many to mention or what are your biggest.
Speaker D:So we've got.
Speaker D:We have been aggressively pursuing Ace Hardware, so we're now in about 40 locations of ACE Hardware nationwide.
Speaker D:We've also been pursuing Meyer Kroger Publix.
Speaker D:Pretty heavy, so we'll see where that goes.
Speaker D:But as it stands Right now we're in 247 stores nationwide at the moment.
Speaker D:I just shipped out an order to Turlock, California, to an Ace Hardware out there.
Speaker C:Great.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker D:So we'll see.
Speaker D:Well, I mean, see a lot of.
Speaker C:These Ace Hardwares, well, they're independently owned and some people own, you know, like 4, 5, 10, whatever it is.
Speaker C:So obviously you're targeting probably the ones that are multiple locations.
Speaker D:Yeah, we've been picked up by a couple groups.
Speaker D:Ace Hardware groups, most notably the Westlake Ace Hardware group picked us up and the Houchen's Ace Hardware Group.
Speaker D:So between those, that's 280 stores possible.
Speaker D:So, I mean, we're coming to a town near you that's, that's really where it's at.
Speaker C:And this time of year, I'm sure sales are picking up because it's.
Speaker C:Tis the season.
Speaker D:Yeah, tis the season.
Speaker D:I feel like the slump after the Fourth of July to August is relatively slow when it comes down to it.
Speaker D:People are either over grilling because they did Memorial Day, Father's Day, Fourth of July, all back to back, and now they're all just trying to find their best takeout place.
Speaker D:Then they get that desire back when Labor Day starts rearing its head, or.
Speaker C:They'Re finishing up what they have.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker D:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:I, I think, I think, I think you're right about that because most people don't immerse themselves in barbecue like we do.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And so they go through those holidays.
Speaker B:It may even start as early as Mother's Day in certain parts of the country because of the weather.
Speaker B:By the time you get here, we are going into two weeks after the 4th of July.
Speaker B:It's hotter than hell in most parts of the country.
Speaker B:And a lot of people are kind of, I think, and I get Leanne's take on this too, as yours, Brian, but they're kind of fair weather cooks, unless it's a, a gathering, a picnic, barbecue, something like that.
Speaker B:But they don't do it.
Speaker B:It's 105 degrees outside on the deck.
Speaker B:They may not want to go out there and, you know, cook that night they like.
Speaker C:That's true.
Speaker B:They may be doing takeout or they may just, you know, Swanson's TV dinner in the microwave or something.
Speaker D:Yeah, I, I actually think that there's, there's a lot to that, especially when you're, you're throwing in like 105 heat index out there.
Speaker E:Yeah.
Speaker D:Just sweat the moment you step outside.
Speaker D:You know, a lot of, a lot of weekend warriors don't have covered grill areas, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Have you added any new flavors?
Speaker D:Yeah, since we.
Speaker D:When was the last time?
Speaker D: It was: Speaker D:Was the last time we've gotten.
Speaker D:I released a West African peanut sauce.
Speaker C:Yum.
Speaker C:I love peanut sauce.
Speaker D:Well, I can send you the last bottle of it.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker D:We are currently looking for another producer of this, so this is literally the last one for a while.
Speaker D:We released a salt pepper garlic blend with a lot of Eastern European, northern Mediterranean flavor.
Speaker D:It's kind of become a staple in a lot of places.
Speaker D:I had one guy tell me that it was his desert island rub.
Speaker D:Like, if he had one that he wanted to just keep, you know, keep him happy on a desert island, that would be it.
Speaker D:We released a zesty dill blend, something to deal with with a little bit of bird's eye chilies, horseradish, lemongrass.
Speaker D:Fantastic.
Speaker D:Shrimp fantastic, like potatoes.
Speaker D:We make a German potato salad with it.
Speaker D:We're about to release a recipe for dill pickle salad with it.
Speaker D:Really cool.
Speaker D:And then the.
Speaker D:The most fun thing that I've done is we started releasing seasonal blends.
Speaker D:So we.
Speaker D:Summer is just now wrapping up.
Speaker D:It's a strawberry honey Dijon blend.
Speaker D:So it's.
Speaker D:It smells like a summer salad.
Speaker D:Fantastic on pork, fantastic on chicken.
Speaker D:Love making a vinaigrette out of it.
Speaker D:I've made Rice Krispies treats with it.
Speaker C:Oh, wow.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Pretty.
Speaker D:Pretty good.
Speaker D:Pretty good.
Speaker D:I'll have people asking me for that in January, and I always hate to tell them that it has to come out in May, you know, but we've built a pretty big reoccurrence here of our seasonal blends.
Speaker D:The strawberry honey Dijon is summer.
Speaker D:And next up is a warm apple bourbon.
Speaker C:I'm glad you didn't say pumpkin.
Speaker D:No, no.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Show would be a short show.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Thanks for having me, guys.
Speaker D:You know, I couldn't.
Speaker D:I couldn't do that.
Speaker D:That's.
Speaker D:That's.
Speaker D:No, no.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That's just not right.
Speaker B:That's just.
Speaker B:As they say, it's.
Speaker B:It's just not right.
Speaker B:Brian, what's your lead time like with your.
Speaker B:The, the deal stuff and the, the strawberry honey that are you.
Speaker B:Do you gear up for that?
Speaker B:Two months out for production and you gotta allow for ship time and all that stuff.
Speaker D:We.
Speaker D:We are about to drop the email to our.
Speaker D:Our wholesalers for pre orders on autumn.
Speaker D:So it takes about two weeks.
Speaker E:Okay.
Speaker D:Takes about two weeks start to finish.
Speaker D:So we try.
Speaker D:We're going to try and have it in their hands on August 1st, when we officially release it.
Speaker D:And then I'll run, I'll run it until it's done, you know, like, I don't, I don't have a set number, but it's kind of, it's kind of gone by feel, you know, and if there's a huge demand for it, we'll just load up because it can always extend over into the next, the next quarter.
Speaker D:You know, we try not to, though.
Speaker D:You know, we try to build that demand and keep them coming back for, for that kind of thing.
Speaker D:It's.
Speaker D:Thanks.
Speaker D:Starbucks pumpkin spice latte model.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Do you do a holiday pack?
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:We bring back all four seasons as a holiday pack and.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker D:Around Christmas time.
Speaker C:That's nice.
Speaker C:That's good for gifts.
Speaker B:Yeah, it is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What about.
Speaker B:Have you ever considered doing something?
Speaker B:I mean, you and I talked one time and you had sent out a note to everybody and I had told you about an old salad dressing that Bernstein's used to make called Spicy Sicilian.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I did a little deep dive on that and they never did give a clear reason why they stopped producing it because I know it sold.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:But, but I have no reason.
Speaker B:Are you, do you like to experiment with stuff like that?
Speaker D:Yeah, we, we've got, we've got ideas and avenue, like more product lines that we would like to bring out.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:As, as is, I've got a stable of about seven salad dressings that I would love to bring out.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:We'd also like to tip our toe into dredges, that kind of thing.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker D:So like, for the, the, the big trick on that though is that since one of our brand promises is gluten free, so it would all have to be rice flour, you know, that kind of.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Tapioca.
Speaker D:Tapioca flour.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Side deal.
Speaker D:But salad dressings are definitely in a future list.
Speaker D:But since we've been wholesaling so off so much, we've kind of had to focus in, you know, and establish as what you are, you know, versus just going super wide with it and then chicken with a head cut off, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Sometimes the, the, maybe the starting line, if you will, is a bit of a shotgun approach.
Speaker B:But then you've got to get down to smaller bore, so to speak, you know.
Speaker C:What's your number one?
Speaker C:What's your number one seller?
Speaker D:Number one selling sauce is the Clevelander.
Speaker D:It's the mustard maple rosemary sauce.
Speaker D:That's 25 out of my 65 awards, including the worldwide Mustard Championship.
Speaker D:Kind of proud about that one.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:I like to tell everybody that I no longer.
Speaker D:I start attributing hugs like I've been hugged five times for this sauce versus, you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker D:Number one rub is a tricky one because everyone's got their mileage, you know, everyone's got their things.
Speaker D:So our barbecue rub is definitely a churner.
Speaker D:But our taco seasoning might be the one that wins repeats because it's really hard to find a good gluten free taco seasoning.
Speaker D:Cool.
Speaker B:We're going to go ahead and take a break here for our commercial products down the line.
Speaker B:Leanne and Brian and I will be back on Barbecue Nation in just a second.
Speaker B:Stay with us.
Speaker E:Hey, everybody, it's Jeff here.
Speaker E:I want to tell you about something really cool.
Speaker E:Heritage steel cookware.
Speaker E:I just got mine.
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Speaker E:Stay cool handles.
Speaker E:It's titanium strengthened.
Speaker E:It's got all the great stuff.
Speaker E:Just go to HeritageSteel us and find out more.
Speaker E:You'll love it.
Speaker E:I guarantee it.
Speaker B:Welcome back to the Nation.
Speaker B:That's Barbecue Nation.
Speaker B:We've got Brian Lay with us today.
Speaker B:I'm saying that right?
Speaker B:Lee or Lay Lee.
Speaker D:Like Bruce Lee?
Speaker B:Like Bruce Lee.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Sorry about that, bud.
Speaker D:That's all right.
Speaker B:If you're like me, you've probably been called worse.
Speaker D:I've been called worse for sure.
Speaker B:If you want to check us out online, you can just go to bbqnationjt.com we're on all the social media platforms along with radio stations and all that.
Speaker B:And you can follow us on Facebook and Twitter.
Speaker B:And leanne's got a million 17,432 followers.
Speaker B:So I have four, but she's got a couple more than I do.
Speaker B:So anyway, you can find this anywhere like that.
Speaker B:Do you think that we had a guy on the show last week?
Speaker B:Let me back up a second, Brian.
Speaker B:We had to go.
Speaker B:A fellow who I had never talked to before.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I think Leanne had run across him a couple times, Chris Martz from Three Little Pigs.
Speaker B:And we were talking about the rub and sauce business.
Speaker B:And so it's kind of appropriate that you are our follow up guest after that.
Speaker B:But he was talking about sauces in particular, that he felt that we've kind of reached a ceiling, an apex on people's, especially at the retail level.
Speaker B:I don't remember how he phrased it, Leanne.
Speaker B:Like we're almost sauced out or something like that.
Speaker B:A soft ceiling.
Speaker B:But you're established.
Speaker B:You've got an established brand now.
Speaker B:You've been out there for more than a couple of weeks.
Speaker B:And so I think what Chris was referring to is, you know, somebody goes out and wins a competition somewhere and says, I've got the whole family recipe and it's all good.
Speaker B:And then there's this mile high climb to get it on a store shelf.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Not talking about online sales, just to get it in front of warm bodies in a retail setting like that.
Speaker B:And how difficult is that?
Speaker B:And his feeling was, is that we've got so many similar flavor profiles.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yours are not.
Speaker B:Yours are fantastic.
Speaker B:But you've, you've continually in the.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:What's that?
Speaker B:That's the 416 train.
Speaker D:The train.
Speaker C:That's the train.
Speaker B:But you've continued to, you know, have a baseline and build from there.
Speaker B:I just wanted to get your thoughts on basically in the sauce business about that.
Speaker D:So I was always told by a couple people early on in this business that you don't talk about three things.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Don't bring up politics, don't bring up religion, don't bring up barbecue, because you're going to end up starting a fight with somebody every time.
Speaker D:Everyone's got their own thing.
Speaker D:And with sauces, the mileage, the taste profiles and everything like that is so different across everybody.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Some people like it vinegary, some people like it spicier, some people like it.
Speaker D:They don't want any vinegar, they want no tang whatsoever.
Speaker D:And it's really difficult to please everybody.
Speaker D:So ultimately please yourself, you know, and if you believe in your product enough and you've come up with something that you find that you love, that will bubble over to your would be fans, evangelists, for lack of a better word.
Speaker D:No, there's.
Speaker D:It's.
Speaker D:I think it's the hardest category in food.
Speaker D:I think barbecue sauces in particular are the hardest category in food because everyone's got their specifics right.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:Everyone's also comparing themselves to the on the store shelf barbecue stuff, the mass produced things, the established brands.
Speaker D:Even though you're not that at all, especially as a small person, you're not that at all.
Speaker D:So it's hard, it's hard to find the middle ground on that and figure out your lane for success.
Speaker D:You know, he's not wrong.
Speaker D:There is a saturation in it.
Speaker D:I mean, the pandemic hit and everybody and their uncle decided to do barbecue and all of them went into a rub or a sauce.
Speaker D:The amount of sauce brands that were birthed during that time is staggering, you know, and Everyone, everyone that, that has gone into it had a passion for it, but they don't necessarily have the stomach for it.
Speaker D:And that's the, that's the kicker part, because making a good product is one thing.
Speaker D:Getting on a shelf is a whole nother ball game.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah, you know, you gotta, you gotta sell your product without that tasting it.
Speaker D:And that's very difficult for some people.
Speaker B:Well, and to one of your points there, Brian, I think, I think Chris was talking about like 20 years ago, if you will, you went, went to the grocery store and you had Sweet Baby Rays and you had the craft, three or four flavors, you know, and maybe stubs at that point, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:There was just a handful.
Speaker B:And what I did back then was I would buy the craft stuff or Sweet Baby Rays or whatever, and then I'd use that as a base and start going home and put my own stuff in it, you know, like that.
Speaker B:And I don't think I'm alone in that.
Speaker B:I think a lot of people did that.
Speaker B:And so it's, you know, half the work was done, if you will, with that, and all the work was done about the accessibility of it because you can go to a Kroger, you could go to a Safeway, you could go to a Stop and Rob on the corner and somebody had a bottle of brown barbecue sauce there.
Speaker D:I'm sorry, Stop and Rob.
Speaker D:That's a good one.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker D:It's not, it's not what we call them.
Speaker D:Yeah, we, we said stab and grab.
Speaker B:Stab and grab.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:I might have been in a little more rougher, a rougher neighborhood than you.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, we had a Stop and Rob, so you can keep the car running, I guess.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:But anyway, yeah, I just think people.
Speaker C:Are more health conscious these days.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So your brand appeals to the gluten free, et cetera.
Speaker C:And that's obviously your marketing and everything else.
Speaker C:And it justifies the higher price point too.
Speaker D:100%.
Speaker D:Absolutely does.
Speaker C:And I feel like.
Speaker C:Go ahead.
Speaker D:No, I was just going to say no seed oils.
Speaker D:That's another thing.
Speaker D:We made that transition here in the last six months because a lot of our fan base was like, hey, we're no longer doing soybean oil.
Speaker D:We can't have your stuff.
Speaker D:So we moved to avocado oil, you know, and that's, that's a big, that's a big draw for a lot of people, you know, along with, you know, all natural.
Speaker D:I know that's a buzzword in, in our industry.
Speaker D:But whole food versus, you know, manufactured food, that is a, that is also a very large thing.
Speaker B:Well, I, I, yeah, I think so.
Speaker B:We got to take another break.
Speaker B:I'm gonna pick that up on the other side.
Speaker B:We're gonna come back in a minute here to the Nation with Leanne and Brian and myself.
Speaker E:Hey, everybody, it's JT And I have eaten.
Speaker E:If you've ever looked at me, you know that.
Speaker E:But I have eaten seafood all over the world, and I can tell you there's no place better than here in Oregon and our Dungeness crab.
Speaker E:If you want to learn more about Oregon Dungeness crab, just go to oregondungeness.org find out how to cook it, how to catch it, where to buy it, and the sustainability of what they're doing there in the Oregon Crab Commission.
Speaker E:Check it out.
Speaker B:Welcome back to the Nation.
Speaker B:I'm JT along with BT and Law.
Speaker B:How's that?
Speaker B:And this is the part of the show where we talk.
Speaker B:Have Law talk about her.
Speaker B:No, I want her pig powder.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I can relate to Brian and his business, and it's tough out there, but pig powder has withstood the test of time.
Speaker C:It's been around, oh, gosh, 30 plus years.
Speaker C:Still going strong.
Speaker C:Spicy rabbit's coming out, and it is sweet with a little bit of heat.
Speaker C:Pig powder can be found on Amazon at the Kansas City Barbecue store.
Speaker C:Currently, actually, I'm out of it online, but expecting a shipment.
Speaker C:I won best rub on the planet.
Speaker C:And, Brian, you're proud of your Clevelander sauce, too, for winning awards.
Speaker C:And awards are noteworthy because there is a lot of rubs and sauces out there, and there are hundreds that go into various competitions, and they're tested not only for the flavor itself, but on food, which I can appreciate in a lot of these contests.
Speaker C:So anyway, pig powder, very versatile.
Speaker C:Rub can be used on fish, pork, chicken, French fries, baked beans, Cocoa Puffs.
Speaker C:Yeah, Cocoa Puffs.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker C:Scrambled eggs.
Speaker B:You know, one.
Speaker B:One to your point, Brian, before we went to break, I get a lot of samples.
Speaker B:I, I know Leanne gets samples.
Speaker B:People want to send you samples and stuff.
Speaker B:People we've had on the show have been very kind and sent us, you know, I gotta send you some of my product.
Speaker B:Fine.
Speaker B:Your stuff tastes good.
Speaker C:It does.
Speaker C:And it's different.
Speaker C:It's really different because of the ingredients you use, and they really are excellent.
Speaker C:I have one kind of side question for you.
Speaker C:Glass versus plastic.
Speaker C:What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker D:Glass.
Speaker D:I'm a big proponent of glass.
Speaker C:And is that because it kind of makes it more high end?
Speaker C:Is it because it lasts longer?
Speaker D:There's a few, few reasons.
Speaker D:One shelf life.
Speaker D:I feel like things just taste better on a glass, you know, like that's just my.
Speaker D:If you give me a bourbon in a rocks glass versus a red Zolo cup, I think it's going to taste better out of the rocks glass.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And you don't get beer in plastic, really.
Speaker D:Right, exactly, exactly.
Speaker D:Plus, and again, there's no scientific data to back this up.
Speaker D:I've just spitball in here.
Speaker D:I got a certain amount of acid in these and I don't know if that interacts with plastic in any way.
Speaker D:I do know that for my crowd, glass is preferred.
Speaker D:You know, plus it's recyclable.
Speaker D:You know, some people make vases out of them, which is funny.
Speaker D:And in my.
Speaker D:I found people sending me pictures of clevelander bottles with tulips in it and stuff like that.
Speaker C:Shipping breakage.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:What about breakage and weight?
Speaker D:So breakage and weight.
Speaker D:Weight is a little.
Speaker D:It can get heavy.
Speaker D:That's true.
Speaker D:We found a shipper that ships beer bottles.
Speaker D:Essentially it's an insert that we can wrap this into in a two pack.
Speaker D:Right, right.
Speaker D:It's a 12 by 3 by 3 permutation of a box.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And we've had very little in the way of breakage since we moved to those.
Speaker D:And truthfully, the, you know, we buy them, we buy them by the pallet and the cost to do that is pretty negligible because of the volume that we buy them in.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker D:You know, it's actually cheaper than bubble wrap and better breakage wise.
Speaker B:You know, back when I was.
Speaker B:I did some rubs and stuff and I did glass bottles and a little hermetically sealed safety thing and then the lid went on and you know, all that.
Speaker B:And a couple of distributors who shall remain nameless at that time, now this was quite a while ago, they didn't like the glass.
Speaker B:Got to go to plastic.
Speaker B:You got to go to plastic.
Speaker B:You got to go to plastic.
Speaker B:And I refused to go to plastic one because.
Speaker B:And I think my theory, again, no science behind this.
Speaker B:But just like you were saying, my theory is that you read a lot of reports now that say you've got 27 parts per billion of plastic particles in your food or in your seasonings like that.
Speaker B:And we didn't know that stuff back then.
Speaker B:I just knew that glass was cleaner.
Speaker B:I actually felt that even though plastic would bounce if you dropped it, the.
Speaker B:I thought, I actually thought it was safer because being around barbecues, really high heat sources, plastic kind of go like that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And glass can get hot and if you're silly about it, you can burn your fingers.
Speaker B:Hopefully nobody ever does that.
Speaker B:I just never liked the.
Speaker B:That was me.
Speaker B:I didn't like the plastic.
Speaker B:Now if you buy bulk stuff and you go buy PC ones, that's going to come in plastic, most of it.
Speaker B:Okay, I understand that, but that's designed for people that understand what we're doing.
Speaker B:That's not for the average consumer.
Speaker B:I mean, they can buy it if they want it.
Speaker B:But the point is PC ones are for commercial kitchens, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:So that was always my theory behind using glass.
Speaker B:And I caught the dickens a bunch for it being too heavy.
Speaker B:You know, if they bought 10 cases of stuff, that was £120 of product there, whatever.
Speaker D:So anyway, we, we've kind of split the uprights on that because we do use your classic 8.4 ounce plastic bottle.
Speaker D:We moved to this from a tin back in the day, like in the beginning, we went to, from tin to bag, craft paper bag to that.
Speaker D:And I will say that sales went up drastically the moment we did this.
Speaker E:Sure.
Speaker D:Convenience and perception, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:All of a sudden, oh, you look like you're playing with the big boys, you know, or big girls as it is, you know, that's terrible.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker D:The adults in the room.
Speaker B:Right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:And, and that, that definitely helped.
Speaker D:I would, I would love, I would love to go to a glass or a, an aluminum deal shaker at some point.
Speaker D:But you know, feasibility for cost is just not there.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:Well, this was 20 years ago or so when I was doing it, so it's exponentially different now.
Speaker D:But yeah.
Speaker B:I just always, I was a glass guy.
Speaker B:Plus I figured if you spilled something on it, you know, got some sauce on it or gravy or whatever, you could wipe it off easier and put it back up on the shelf.
Speaker B:And it didn't look like your dog carried it off to the woodshed, you know what I mean?
Speaker D:So, and we're, we're finding that like the cost, the shipping cost is actually fairly negligible nowadays.
Speaker D:Yeah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker D:I feel like it doesn't matter as long as we're under the 25 pound mark or the 50 pound mark for UPS, then you don't get the bump, you know.
Speaker D:But from, from 5 to 25, it's the same volumetrics matter too.
Speaker D:But you know, the size of the bottle is Going to be the same for the most part.
Speaker C:So you were saying on your peanut sauce you were going to a different producer or manufacturer.
Speaker C:Do you use multiple manufacturers?
Speaker D:As it stands right now, what we did for the peanut sauce, we went off of where we went.
Speaker D:I try to keep everything localized to Kentucky because I'm a big proponent of the local of the Kentucky Proud program.
Speaker D:They're fantastic human beings with fantastic everything.
Speaker D:And I like.
Speaker D:I like supporting as local as I possibly can.
Speaker D:That being said, we could not find a producer that was willing to touch peanuts within the state of Kentucky, so we had to go out to Florida.
Speaker D:Interesting.
Speaker D:But they have since become an allergen regulated facility, so we're in the process of trying to find somebody else.
Speaker C:Mm.
Speaker D:Got a couple irons in the fire on it, but that's hard.
Speaker D:It's really difficult.
Speaker D:Peanuts are hard.
Speaker D:And I don't want to do it myself because I ain't got time for that.
Speaker D:That's a lot of work too.
Speaker B:I find it interesting there's a correlation there that.
Speaker B:And what you're saying is correct.
Speaker B:It's hard.
Speaker B:But I think peanuts are the number one selling nut in the world or something like that.
Speaker B:So not everybody has an allergy.
Speaker D:No, no, not at all.
Speaker D:But the, the way it was explained to me by my, my main co Packer is that even if there was even a mention of peanuts, the FDA would make you put on your label produced in a facility with.
Speaker B:I've seen that.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:But that's.
Speaker D:Every single product that would come from that facility would have to have their labels redesigned and have that added.
Speaker D:So when you're.
Speaker C:Because it's airborne, so.
Speaker D:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker D:So you're in a, you're in a high, high production area.
Speaker D:You know, I don't want to be the person that makes seven or eight other brands change their, their labels.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker B:Well, they would love you.
Speaker B:They would love me.
Speaker D:Shake fisted Sky.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, you know, it is what it is.
Speaker B:Do you?
Speaker B:You know, we got a couple minutes before we got to go to break, Brian, but we were talking about sauces.
Speaker B:What about rubs?
Speaker B:As far as saturation point?
Speaker D:That's a good one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's a lot of them.
Speaker D:There's a lot of them.
Speaker D:There's a lot more of them than there are sauces.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And for, for sure.
Speaker D:I feel like the uphill battle with, with spice blends is.
Speaker D:Oh, I can do that myself.
Speaker D:You know, that's the, that's the uphill battle with it because you have, you've got the weekend warrior right for lack of better words on that.
Speaker D:That's just going to try stuff because they're getting.
Speaker D:They're dipping their toe into smoking or they just really enjoy firing up a grill and they'll change it every time.
Speaker D:They don't have a tried and true method yet, you know, or.
Speaker D:Or anything of that nature.
Speaker D:Their recipes change.
Speaker D:So they give things a shot.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:But you get, like, the real hardcore smokers and the hardcore pit masters.
Speaker D:They don't buy other people.
Speaker D:Maybe they buy your stuff, Leanne.
Speaker C:They do.
Speaker D:They do.
Speaker D:They do.
Speaker D:But most of the time, you're going to see.
Speaker D:Well, I take brown sugar, black pepper, some chili powder, and I mix it myself when I'm doing pork, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:But I will say that rubs outsell our sauces lately.
Speaker D:In the last two years, rubs have.
Speaker D:Have dominated it.
Speaker D:Dominated it.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:We're going to take another break.
Speaker B:We're going to be back with Brian Lee from BT Lee's Barbecue Sauces Rubs.
Speaker B:And he's Kentuckian, and I love that.
Speaker B:We'll be right back.
Speaker B:At least now he's Kentuckian.
Speaker E:Hey, everybody, it's J.T.
Speaker E:you know, I talk about painted hills all the time, and we always say beef the way nature intended.
Speaker E:But it's more than that because each bite of painted hills will make your taste buds explode.
Speaker E:Put a big, bright smile on your face, and whoever's at your dinner table will have a big, bright smile on their face.
Speaker E:And you can thank me for that later.
Speaker E:Just go to paintedhillsbeef.com and find out more.
Speaker B:You won't regret it.
Speaker E:Hey, everybody, J.T.
Speaker E:here.
Speaker E:I want to tell you about Hammerstahl knives.
Speaker E:Hammerstahl combines German steel with beautiful and functioning designs.
Speaker E:They're part of the Heritage Steel Group, which also does their pots and pans.
Speaker E:So go to Heritagesteel US Check out the Hammerstahl knives.
Speaker E:If you're really into cook, I think you're really gonna like them.
Speaker B:Welcome back to the nation.
Speaker B:I am here with Leanne and Brian and kind of.
Speaker B:I miss Kentucky.
Speaker D:Yeah, I don't regret moving here.
Speaker D:Yeah, I love the state.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was a great state and had a lot of fun there, and the people were very nice and for the most part.
Speaker B:And, yeah, there's always a little of that everywhere you go.
Speaker B:But, yeah, it was.
Speaker B:And it was beautiful.
Speaker B:I could just never crack the humidity code when I was there, because I was always there either dead middle of winter or dead middle of summer.
Speaker B:I could never seem to go in the spring and the fall when Things were a little more mellow, you know.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:My wife convinced me to move down here by telling me that we would be moving from air conditioning to air conditioning instead of having to brush off the car, warm the car, drive 15 minutes in snow, you know, get out of the snow, bundle up the whole thing.
Speaker D:So I'm.
Speaker D:I don't regret trading in 180 inches of snow for eight.
Speaker D:And those eight completely shut down the area.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Like here in Oregon.
Speaker B:Whiff of snow.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:Weather alert.
Speaker C:You know, what kind of advice would you give somebody who's starting out in the sauce and spice industry?
Speaker D:Buy a PH reader.
Speaker C:Really?
Speaker D:For sauces?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Know your pHs and learn to love the gram and not Instagram.
Speaker D:Gram.
Speaker D:Grams.
Speaker D:Yeah, everything in grams.
Speaker C:Why is the PH so important?
Speaker D:Shelf life, stability.
Speaker D:You know, you don't want to accidentally kill somebody with a botul item or anything like that.
Speaker D:You want it to be under your recommended PH meters.
Speaker D:And, you know, find your good process authority if you're going to do it the right way or not the right way, the hard way, if you're going to do it yourself, you know, go through your better process control school, find a process authority, work through all the stuff, make sure it's to the gram, and make sure you've got a good rapport with your health department so they can review your labels accordingly.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah, there's a.
Speaker D:There's a lot.
Speaker D:There's a lot to it.
Speaker D:And one of the things that, you know, I'm very proud of my brand and how we've grown and how we started, but I've helped quite a few sauce manufacturers get off the ground, you know, with labels and verifications and designs.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker D:And that kind of stuff.
Speaker D:Just navigating the pitfalls of this because there's no good information.
Speaker D:Sometimes.
Speaker D:Sometimes I feel like it's the wild west, you know, of just trying to find the information to build your brand or to.
Speaker D:To take your sauce to market, you know, and people just don't.
Speaker D:They don't know.
Speaker D:They don't know that you need to put this on a label or you're going to get bounced by the fda, you know?
Speaker B:Well, and I. I think if you go to a distributor, we've had people tell us, and I've talked about people personally off the air and stuff, that they said they were going to do a sauce and they made a sauce and they went to a distributor and the distributor looked at him and said, what are you doing?
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Because where's this?
Speaker B:Where's your ingredient?
Speaker B:List.
Speaker B:Where's your, you know, all the verifications that you were just speaking of all this, you know, does it have to be refrigerated?
Speaker B:Does it, you know, the, the, and the list, like you said, is lengthy and I think that probably dissuades maybe some people along the way that have a good product potentially.
Speaker D:Yeah, I, I think it does.
Speaker D:I think it does.
Speaker D:I think some people look at it.
Speaker C:And say, yeah, no, not as easy as I thought.
Speaker D:Not as easy as I thought.
Speaker D:And then if they go to a CO packer, you know, the CO packer, the minimums on a CO packer sometimes are just mind boggling to folks, you know, especially.
Speaker D:They're just starting, you know.
Speaker B:Well, what are you going to do with 24,000 bottles of a sauce that doesn't sell?
Speaker B:Right, correct.
Speaker D:That's got a, that's got a 18 month shelf life on it.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, going to be down at the Stop and Rob or the Grab and Stab or whatever you call it.
Speaker B:Barbecue sauce for a buck.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker D:Yeah, you try and move it as fast as possible, I guess.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, but I think that's, it's come a long ways.
Speaker B:Not just the sauces, but the, the blends, the rubs.
Speaker C:Do you go to food shows?
Speaker D:So we had a presence at the Dallas Market center for a while.
Speaker D:We were invited to go to fancy food this time around, but we just could not swing the time commitment for it at this point.
Speaker D:That's very, in the very near future, we will be there.
Speaker D:You know, like there is, there's no way around that, you know, not that I'm saying that that's a, that's a chore because I think it's going to be super fun, you know, but I just, I look at it and I get tired, you know.
Speaker C:A lot of expense too.
Speaker D:A lot of expense.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And you gotta lug all your sauce there or ship it there.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:So got a couple minutes left here, Brian.
Speaker B:Where do you see B.T.
Speaker B:lee's two years, five years from now?
Speaker B:Where do you hope to see it?
Speaker D:Oh, man.
Speaker D:So I'm hoping that within the next year we'll grow to a thousand locations nationwide and start really digging into the regional Mid Atlantic area for sauces and rubs as is.
Speaker D:Tennessee loves us, Ohio loves us, Indiana loves us and Kentucky loves us.
Speaker D:And a big portion of Texas loves us and, or knows about us.
Speaker D:We would like to be in, in the ACE Main catalog by that time, you know, and in, in five years.
Speaker D:I just keep going, keep going, you know.
Speaker B:Is it easier to deal with Ace like that than it is to deal with like a super chain like Kroger?
Speaker D:So as Leanne pointed out, a lot of Ace hardwares are independently owned, right?
Speaker D:So you can go in and you can pitch to the owner directly.
Speaker D:I had a great conversation with an owner named Greg down in Tennessee recently.
Speaker D:And you know, you get honest answers from them.
Speaker D:You know, you, you say, well, we, we would pick you up, but you need a certain amount of social following now, or you need to have your name out there, or you've got to have something that's a driving factor to get them in the store to purchase you, you know, and since we're such a boots on the ground initiative in a lot of ways, like I show up to towns and I do shows, I do farmer's markets, I do demos, wherever I'm sold, You know, I try and get the flavor in there in their minds and mouths as much as possible.
Speaker D:And then they meet me, you know, and I'm the guy on the bottle and, oh, it's the guy on the bottle, you know, like, that's a, that's a thing.
Speaker D:And it works out that way.
Speaker D:But to your point, I think it's easier to get into small, independently own things than it is to get into larger chains.
Speaker D:There's a barrier to entry that a small brand has a hard time achieving.
Speaker D:I'm lucky because my director of art and sales, marketing director is a fantastic designer and she's done this.
Speaker D:And we look so professional.
Speaker D:Like our sell sheets are gorgeous, you know, and they have all the pertinent information and we've got all the assets and all that stuff, but not every brand has that readily available to them.
Speaker D:And if they do, they have to pay for it.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker D:And I've got my wife on retainer and it has made so many people mad that I dominate her time because we did have, we have other barbecue brands and wineries and that kind of stuff that are vying for her attention too.
Speaker D:And I'm just like, ah, you know, I, I can't give her up right now.
Speaker D:And, and that's, and that helps get your foot in the door.
Speaker D:And then you got to sell it and you got to know what your price points are and you got to.
Speaker B:Know.
Speaker D:What the, what the temperature of the trending is, you know, all natural, gluten free, vegan friendly, vegan friendly barbecue is on the rise.
Speaker D:Which I never thought I would ever say those words, you know, in the same sentence.
Speaker D:In the same sentence.
Speaker D:But it is a Big, big trend that's out there.
Speaker D:And people care more about what's on the back of the bottle than the front of the bottle or what's in the bottle anymore.
Speaker D:It seems like I get so many people that actually first thing they do is they look at it, they're like, oh, that's you.
Speaker D:And then they just turn it around and they're like.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker D:Soybean oil.
Speaker D:You know, and that's, that's just a, you know, even though.
Speaker D:So soybean oil is like 1% of the bottle tops.
Speaker D:You know, it was just a non starter.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Brian Lee from.
Speaker B:Sorry about that.
Speaker B:Brian Lee from BT Lee's Barbecue and Rubs and Sauces, now residing in Kentucky, Bowling Green.
Speaker B:Is that correct?
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:Beautiful town.
Speaker B:Brian's gonna stick around for after hours.
Speaker B:Got a few new questions for him.
Speaker B:Can they find John line?
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:Btleads.com B T L E I G H S.com or if you, if you search for smoked stuffed jalapenos, apparently we're number one.
Speaker B:Okay for that.
Speaker D:So that's a recipe.
Speaker D:We got a full, fully operational recipe blog on there and I write articles and you can also find all of our sauces and all that jazz.
Speaker B:Excellent, Excellent, Brian.
Speaker B:Thank you, Leanne.
Speaker B:Thank you, folks.
Speaker B:Thank you for letting us share some time with you this week and next week we'll be back.
Speaker B:Don't know who with, but it's always somebody.
Speaker B:Anyway, for Leanne and Brian, myself, thanks for listening.
Speaker B:Remember our motto, turn it, don't burn it, go out, have some fun, and take care, everybody.
Speaker A:Barbecue Nation is produced by jtsd, LLC Productions in association with Salem Media Group.
Speaker A:All rights reserved.
Speaker B:It.
