Chef Michelle Wallace
This podcast episode features an engaging dialogue with Michelle Wallace, a prominent figure in the barbecue community and a media personality. Central to our discussion is the significance of both formal culinary training and practical experience in the barbecue industry, highlighting the necessity of understanding business operations in conjunction with culinary skills. Michelle shares her personal journey, illustrating how she transitioned from traditional restaurant roles to becoming a celebrated pitmaster, as well as her innovative approach to barbecuing. We explore the challenges and joys of maintaining consistency in food preparation and the importance of community support in one’s culinary endeavors. Join us as we delve into the nuances of barbecue culture, competition experiences, and the evolution of culinary artistry through the lens of our esteemed guest.
Links referenced in this episode:
- heritagesteel.us
- oregondungeness.org
- barbecuenationjt.com
- paintedhillsbeef.com
- pigpowder.com
- chefmichellewallace.com
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Houston's
- Heritage Steel
- Painted Hills
- Pig Powder
- Ton Charcoal
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
It's time for Barbecue Nation with jt so fire up your grill, light the.
Speaker B:Charcoal, and get your smoker cooking.
Speaker A:Now from the Turn It Don't Burnet studios in Portland, here's jt.
Speaker A:Hey, everybody.
Speaker A:Welcome to the nation.
Speaker A:That's Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:I'm jt.
Speaker A:You can go ahead and drink that, Michelle.
Speaker A:That's all right.
Speaker A:And with my co host and co commander, Leanne Whippen, of course, coming to you from our respective Turn It, Don't Burn it studios, we've got a very special guest today.
Speaker A:You've seen her on television a number of times now, and both she and Leanne are alumni of a particular show.
Speaker A:And we're going to talk about that.
Speaker A:We've got Michelle Wallace with us today.
Speaker A:And between the sandwich company is her daily chore, along with being a media superstar.
Speaker A:So, Michelle, welcome.
Speaker C:Thank you, guys.
Speaker C:Thank you for having me.
Speaker D:Nice to have you.
Speaker C:Thank you so much.
Speaker C:I'm so glad to be here chatting with you guys today.
Speaker A:Hey, that's what we do.
Speaker A:We are chatters.
Speaker A:So if you looked back on your life, say 10, 12 years ago, would ever thought you were, you would be where you are today, not talking to us, but, you know, Absolutely not.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:I have, as I like to say, failed my way to success or to this point in my life, which I consider a success.
Speaker C:But no, 10, 12 years, to be honest with you, I just, I wanted to, I told myself that I wanted to be impactful in some way in this industry.
Speaker C:And I didn't know what that looked like.
Speaker C:I didn't know if that looked like, you know, restaurant managing, you know, I didn't know what it looked like.
Speaker C:And I really left myself open for everything and I landed up here.
Speaker A:Well, good.
Speaker A:What prompted you to get into the food world?
Speaker C:Making money in college?
Speaker C:Actually, I was a broke college student and my first job in the restaurant industry, I was a greeter at Houston's restaurant there across the country.
Speaker C:But I was a greeter transition into a server and bartender.
Speaker C:And I did all the things front of the house.
Speaker C:So that was my first taste.
Speaker C:And once I graduated college, I actually worked in the, in the healthcare industry.
Speaker C:My degree is in healthcare administration.
Speaker C:And, you know, I truly missed it.
Speaker C:I missed that every day was different in the restaurant industry.
Speaker C:I missed learning about food.
Speaker C:I miss learning about wine.
Speaker C:And that kind of just started my interest in food.
Speaker A:Well, good, good.
Speaker B:And you work.
Speaker D:I love Houston's, by the way.
Speaker C:I still do.
Speaker A:I've eaten at a few of them.
Speaker A:So, yeah, that's all good.
Speaker A:You Got some good hands on ojt, right, With Greg Gatlin.
Speaker A:Tell us about that.
Speaker A:Working with Greg.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:At this point in my career, I had decided to.
Speaker C:I had just finished culinary school, well, maybe a couple years before I met Greg, but now I'm knee deep in back of the house.
Speaker C:I let go everything front of the house and knee deep in back of the house and learning.
Speaker C:And I randomly met Greg.
Speaker C:I was out with my.
Speaker C:I have a twin sister.
Speaker C:We were out at a party, and I was like, you know, that's that barbecue guy.
Speaker C:Like, he's with his wife at the time.
Speaker C:And I was like, you know, I know him from somewhere.
Speaker C:We.
Speaker C:My sister introduced us.
Speaker C:We kind of just did like, hey, I really love your barbecue.
Speaker C:You know, just, you know, we were just giving him all the positive praises that night.
Speaker C:And he was just such a nice person and just so eager, even in that moment, to teach and learn.
Speaker C:And he invited me to come to this restaurant.
Speaker C:He showed me what he did, and, you know, we just became friends over time, you know, I got a chance to meet his wife, his parents and everything, and they were just lovely people.
Speaker C:And then after a few months, he extended an invitation.
Speaker C:He really liked my background, having some formal training in an actual restaurant setting and I think was really, you know, impressive to him.
Speaker C:In barbecue, a lot of times you get pitmad and restaurateurs who have never had that.
Speaker C:That training, right?
Speaker C:And so he was like, man, I think you can add something to this team.
Speaker C:And so that's how I got started.
Speaker C:And I went in, you know, as a female, not, you know, of course I barbecued before.
Speaker C:My.
Speaker C:My father was an avid griller, so I was familiar with it, but I hadn't learned on that level.
Speaker C:And he was just, you know, I was eager to learn and he was willing to teach.
Speaker C:And so I, you know, they kept trying to put me on the side dishes, of which I handle.
Speaker C:I'm like, no, I want to.
Speaker C:Some cases of briskets.
Speaker C:I want to break this down.
Speaker C:Show me everything.
Speaker C:And, you know, I convinced him and his father to teach me.
Speaker C:And so that's how I got my training.
Speaker C:I was just really, really adamant.
Speaker C:I think that, you know, as, you know, if you're not learning anything, you're not growing.
Speaker C:And I just really, really wanted to grow in this.
Speaker C:In this sector of food.
Speaker C:And, you know, they saw that I was eager and they taught me everything.
Speaker C:I mean, up at 3, 30, 4 o'clock in the restaurant and putting in the hours.
Speaker A:Yeah, there you go.
Speaker A:You know, leanne ran restaurants and stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Do you think that's important?
Speaker A:I mean, you've got your own restaurant now.
Speaker A:I know that's important for that.
Speaker A:But as far as the barbecue world, you touched on it a minute ago that a lot of the pitmasters don't have classical restaurant training or food training.
Speaker A:A lot of them haven't run a restaurant, which is a lot different than dragging around a pit and cooking some briskets and butts and stuff, you know.
Speaker A:How important do you think that is?
Speaker C:I definitely think it is important.
Speaker C:I think somebody on the team, because at some point you go from maybe you and one other person with your pit out in the field selling plates to actually running this business, and at that point where you decide, we want to do this on a larger scale, it becomes a different thing.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so I think someone on the team should have some level of restaurant exposure.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So that you understand what services and ordering from P and L and knowing numbers.
Speaker C:I think it's super important to have prior to a lot of people just get the on the job training, and that's cool, too.
Speaker C:But I think it's a part of how you grow, so I think it's important.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Leanne, what's your thoughts on that?
Speaker D:I think you have to.
Speaker D:You hear people saying, oh, you make the best lasagna.
Speaker D:You should open a touch plain restaurant.
Speaker D:Well, yeah, it's not as simple as making lasagna.
Speaker D:No, it is a business.
Speaker D:It's.
Speaker D:Food is a large part of it.
Speaker D:But it.
Speaker D:It comes down to profitability and numbers and, you know, building your customer base and keeping your customers and knowing how to do that.
Speaker D:So there's.
Speaker D:There's so much involved that you have to.
Speaker C:Yeah, you have to have a piggyback on.
Speaker C:On that statement.
Speaker C:I actually think making good food is one of the smaller portions of that entire scope.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I owned a restaurant or a deli, actually, for about two weeks.
Speaker A:Then I sold it back because I didn't have.
Speaker A:I kind of bought it as an investment with a friend of mine, and he was actually in the restaurant business, and he had sold all his stuff and he wanted to do it.
Speaker A:And then when he came to me, and I was traveling a lot in those days, and I also had a retail business, and he said, what shift are you going to work?
Speaker A:I went, no, I'm already doing like 67 hours a week, so there's no shift in there.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But I did run a catering company for a long time.
Speaker A:So anyway, what's the biggest thing you think you've learned about dealing with people and food because that's always a big.
Speaker A:Like Leanne just said, and you've said, you know, you can make a great lasagna, you can make a great brisket, but when you actually put it out there in front of the public and you have to deal with those people, you know, face to face, one on one, whatever it is, that's a whole different ballgame.
Speaker A:So what do you think you've learned about that?
Speaker C:I think that I've learned that people just simply want, consistently, consistency.
Speaker C:And every day, they want to come to you.
Speaker C:Every day that you're open, they want to know that the brisket on Monday at 11am is the same brisket that you get Wednesday at 4pm you know what I mean?
Speaker C:And they can trust that.
Speaker C:They can get that every time they come to you.
Speaker C:If on Monday your brisket tastes like one thing, and on Thursday it tastes a little bit different, you know, people can't trust you.
Speaker C:You know, they can't trust the product.
Speaker C:And so for the big.
Speaker C:The biggest thing is that people, they don't mind spending their money.
Speaker C:They just want to make sure that they're spending their money on something good and that it's consistent.
Speaker A:Yeah, I would.
Speaker A:I would agree.
Speaker A:The Pacific Northwest, where I live, is not known for dynamite barbecue, although we have some.
Speaker A:Some good stores here, if you will.
Speaker A:Yeah, like that.
Speaker A:But we see a lot of them kind of start up and they have a little splash and then they get a little quiet, and then they go away.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:And I think the reason is twofold.
Speaker A:One, what you just said, consistency in the product.
Speaker A:And two, a lot of them have not run a restaurant business or a catering company, if that.
Speaker A:And, you know, getting the orders in on time for the.
Speaker A:For the food products and dealing with employees and, you know, HR issues, if you will.
Speaker A:I mean, all that stuff goes into it.
Speaker C:Oh, 100%.
Speaker C:You know, I just.
Speaker C:It is tough.
Speaker C:We are in a tough time right now.
Speaker C:Economically.
Speaker C:Employees is the biggest thing.
Speaker C:You know, I have a lot of people in the.
Speaker C:In the barbecue world and beyond.
Speaker C:That is one of the most important things that they talk about.
Speaker C:They're either looking for employees, they can't retain them, and for.
Speaker C:For a magnitude of reasons, but it's.
Speaker C:It's, you know, you can't.
Speaker C:It's hard to run a business by yourself.
Speaker C:You need employees.
Speaker A:Yeah, you do.
Speaker A:You gotta have somebody to flog, you know.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Throw a lemonade or whatever.
Speaker A:So you said you had a twin sister.
Speaker A:Is she involved in Any of your.
Speaker C:Business or, you know, I'm trying to get her to quit her job every single day, and she don't do it.
Speaker D:She.
Speaker C:Yeah, we.
Speaker C:So we operate a lot at farmer's markets, of which I love to do.
Speaker C:And so she'll help me at the farmer's markets, but beyond that.
Speaker C:No, no, I don't need her in the kitchen.
Speaker C:She's.
Speaker C:She's, you know, I need her answering the email said, you know, doing the administrative stuff.
Speaker A:Can she cook?
Speaker A:I mean, you know, at all?
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, she won't go hungry, but they won't be.
Speaker C:They will not be culinary, you know, creation that you would want to put on the menu.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:No, she got the blue and yellow Kraft macaroni and cheese box type thing.
Speaker C:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Took the basic skills of what mom and grandmom and dad taught us all.
Speaker A:We always used to.
Speaker A:We always used to say, ask my dad if he could boil water without burning it.
Speaker D:Oh, God.
Speaker A:And I'll tell you what, he was the greatest actor I ever met because he pulled that crap off for years.
Speaker A:But when my mom was out of town, we would have these marvelous breakfasts and dinner, and he would cook them.
Speaker A:But when she came home, couldn't do a thing.
Speaker C:He got amnesia when she came.
Speaker A:We're going to take a break here on the Nation and be back with Michelle Wallace and, of course, Leanne and myself after this.
Speaker A:Don't go away.
Speaker B:Hey, everybody, it's Jeff here.
Speaker B:I want to tell you about something really cool.
Speaker B:Heritage steel cookware.
Speaker B:I just got mine.
Speaker B:I do a lot of cooking, and it's got five ply construction.
Speaker B:Stay cool handles.
Speaker B:It's titanium strengthened.
Speaker B:It's got all the great stuff.
Speaker B:Just go to HeritageSteel us and find out more.
Speaker B:You'll love it.
Speaker B:I guarantee it.
Speaker A:Welcome back to the Nation.
Speaker A:That's Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:I'm JT along with a hall of famer and my partner in crime, Leanne Whippin.
Speaker A:Of course, if you want to email us, it's just go to the website barbecue nation, jt.com and you can send us a note there.
Speaker A:You can find us on Facebook and Twitter.
Speaker A:We have the show accounts.
Speaker A:We have our personal accounts.
Speaker A:Leanne's got like 10 million accounts.
Speaker A:So all you have to do is type in Leanne Whippen and the page lights up so you can find her right there like that.
Speaker A:But today we're talking with Michelle Wallace.
Speaker A:You saw her on High on the Hog.
Speaker A:You've seen her on Barbecue Brawl.
Speaker A:What was that like for you?
Speaker A:Everybody?
Speaker A:That I know that did a show.
Speaker A:And Leanne, of course, was on the original Pitmasters and all that stuff.
Speaker A:They've all had different experiences.
Speaker A:So tell us about yours.
Speaker C:I enjoy television.
Speaker C:I didn't know this until, basically, Barbecue Brawl.
Speaker C:Competition.
Speaker C:Competition, right.
Speaker C:It's intense.
Speaker C:It's, you know, you want to go hard.
Speaker C:My experience.
Speaker C:Experience on Barbecue Brawl was, you know, it's all fine.
Speaker C:Like, I'm easy, like, Sunday morning.
Speaker C:It takes a lot to kind of, you know, take me to another space.
Speaker C:But for me, I stay in my bubble.
Speaker C:I want to, you know, execute.
Speaker C:I'm thinking about all the things that you need to think about.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:How's the fire going?
Speaker C:Can I.
Speaker C:How's my creativity?
Speaker C:And then how's my time?
Speaker C:Am I moving quick enough?
Speaker C:But, you know, barbecue bra was light work in comparison to Top Chef, which is a crazy kind of, you know, transition.
Speaker C:But I enjoy barbecue bra.
Speaker C:I think it's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's a lot of just high heat cooking to start off.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:Leanne, would you agree with that?
Speaker C:But then I didn't make it to the end, so I didn't get a chance to do the longer smokes.
Speaker C:But, yeah, no, I think.
Speaker C:I think it was cool.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Fun.
Speaker C:A lot of fun.
Speaker D:I think as they progressed in the brawl, they had more competitors in the first season, so we had longer cooks, and they got shorter as it progressed.
Speaker C:Oh, got it.
Speaker D:And you had, in between, short cooks, but there were long ones almost for every episode.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, wow.
Speaker D:So it was a little bit different.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You were in season one.
Speaker D:Yeah, season one.
Speaker C:So, yeah, I heard how different season one is to where the show is today.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:It is different.
Speaker A:So from a production standpoint, did they give you chairs with your name on them?
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:And I asked to, and they just looked at me like I was crazy.
Speaker A:Well, you gotta ask, you know, if it's a Hollywood deal, if you don't ask, you never.
Speaker A:You never go, did you learn anything?
Speaker A:I mean, you obviously learn about some aspects of television production.
Speaker A:You can't help it if you're on a set doing something like brawl or throw down or whatever.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You see things happening, and you get used to the timing and all that.
Speaker A:But did it also really sharpen your cooking timing and skills, would you say?
Speaker C:I did almost in a different way than you might expect.
Speaker C:I went in really, like, having this chefy kind of approach to barbecue.
Speaker C:And at that time, you know, I think I was thinking too far.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Barbecue sometimes can just be this simple thing of Just, you know, fire, smoke, thyme, some really great seasonings, and then present it in a simple way.
Speaker C:And so for me, there was a lot of trimming in my thought process when I'm executing that I had to do.
Speaker C:And just basically, honestly, just kind of keep it simple, but in a complex way.
Speaker C:You know, barbecue isn't simple, but I was just trying to do too much.
Speaker C:And so it taught me to try to, you know, just kind of reserve my thoughts a little bit or hone them when I have an idea.
Speaker C:How do I bring it in and.
Speaker A:Then present something amazing, really sharpen the focus.
Speaker C:Exactly, exactly, exactly.
Speaker C:I'm a creative and I love, like, you know, what if this, And I can do this and I can do that, and I can do this.
Speaker C:And it was just too many things.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so I quickly learned how to kind of just trim my thoughts down.
Speaker A:You're not a happy person, are you?
Speaker C:Not at all.
Speaker C:Not at all.
Speaker C:Not at all, man.
Speaker C:Listen, we get one life, right?
Speaker C:And I'm not a neurosurgeon.
Speaker C:Like, no one's life is on the line with what I'm doing.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so we all have to eat.
Speaker C:I love the fellowship that food provides.
Speaker C:I love hanging out with new people because, you know, we can, we can have these conversations if I'm sitting with you, Leanne, or you, Jeff, and we can come together about a time that we had some amazing brisket or some ribs or.
Speaker C:I mean, I just really think food brings us together.
Speaker C:And I love, I literally love what I do and I love the people in it and, you know, how can you not be happy?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:That's why you're successful.
Speaker C:Seriously.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:I love, I just love the enthusiasm and the smile.
Speaker A:You got a million dollar smile there, kids.
Speaker A:I just love it.
Speaker A:Do you think in barbecue that sometimes we especially maybe on the competitive side that.
Speaker A:And we ask this of a lot of our guests, but maybe they should expand more, do pork chops.
Speaker A:I'm just throwing some stuff out there at you, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:Kind of now we're seeing it with sides and we're seeing like, with the steak cook off associations and all that, but really in the, in the main competitions and they're doing some of it, but I, I personally would like to see them do something more.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, I, you know, I support that message.
Speaker C:I literally, in a lot of interviews that I've been giving lately, I tell people I think I do unconventional barbecue.
Speaker C:Like, I don't.
Speaker C:And my pop ups and things of that nature.
Speaker C:Yes, I'm a barbecue girl, and you might consider me a pitmaster, but I'm presenting these ingredients in a different way a lot of the time.
Speaker C:So my training is classic, Right.
Speaker C:East Texas barbecue.
Speaker C:You can see that.
Speaker C:You can see my Southern heritage and a lot of that.
Speaker C:But then I also like to turn it on its head.
Speaker C:So how can I take this smoked goat that I might apply those classic techniques that I got right training in, and then I flip it into another dish?
Speaker C:And so I think it would be great to see that happening in competitions where you have, like, this unconventional approach to a dish or to smoke.
Speaker C:I smoke strawberries and make a strawberry jam.
Speaker C:You know, I smoke collard greens.
Speaker C:I smoke.
Speaker C:You know, like I said, I do.
Speaker C:I smoke goat.
Speaker C:And I know that's not foreign, but we don't see that a lot in competition, you know?
Speaker A:So, yeah, I cooked a couple of goats.
Speaker C:Yeah, I love it.
Speaker C:Goat ribs are first.
Speaker A:What I did, though, that was some pretty chewy stuff, I got to tell you, because I had no idea what in the hell.
Speaker C:But that's real barbecue, right?
Speaker C:You got to.
Speaker C:You got to mess it up a couple of times to get to know it, that sweet spot.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Leanne's cooked with me.
Speaker A:She cooked with me for about a week last year.
Speaker C:And how'd that go?
Speaker D:Great.
Speaker C:Good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:She's being very nice about my.
Speaker A:My skills, you know, because I'm always doing something goofy, but it was good, actually.
Speaker A:I've had kind of off the subject here, but I'll tell you now, Leanne, I've lately, because we just released the sixth show.
Speaker A:We got a lot of compliments about our rapport.
Speaker A:How's that?
Speaker D:That's good.
Speaker A:That's really good.
Speaker A:All right, we're going to take another break.
Speaker A:We're going to be back with Michelle Wallace, and we're going to talk about some more barbecue things and some more TV things.
Speaker A:And I know Leanne will sneak a personal question in there, too, now and then.
Speaker A:So we'll be right back.
Speaker C:O.
Speaker A:Foreign.
Speaker B:It'S JT and I have eaten.
Speaker B:If you've ever looked at me, you know that.
Speaker B:But I have eaten seafood all over the world, and I can tell you there's no place better than here in Oregon and our Dungeness crab.
Speaker B:If you want to learn more about Oregon Dungeness crab, just go to oregondungeness.org, find out how to cook it, how to catch it, where to buy it, and the sustainability of what they're doing there in the Oregon Crab Commission.
Speaker B:Check it out.
Speaker A:Welcome back to the nation.
Speaker A:Thanks for being with us today.
Speaker A:We appreciate you more than you know.
Speaker A:We're talking with Michelle Wallace today.
Speaker A:When, when Greg's sat a brisket in front of you and said, have at it, and he handed you a knife, what was your first response?
Speaker A:Like, oh, my God, no, I was.
Speaker C:Faking it until I made it.
Speaker C:I took that knife and I acted like I knew exactly what I was supposed to do with it.
Speaker C:And then he was like, stop.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:So, yeah, it's one thing is I was the only female in that kitchen when I got hired.
Speaker C:All the other ladies were doing the side dishes and desserts and stuff himself.
Speaker C:And so I tried to attack it, acting like, you know, I knew it all.
Speaker C:And, you know, he quickly told me.
Speaker A:Corrected that stopped it.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:And at that point, you know, I let it all down.
Speaker C:Like, tell me what I need to know.
Speaker A:Do you that training that you had with him and his time, will you be willing to do that with somebody else going down the road?
Speaker C:1,000%.
Speaker C:I don't think you can grow without teaching.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:If I take it all in, I should be able to tell someone else.
Speaker C:And I don't know that I can do that until I do that.
Speaker C:One and two, there's so much room for us.
Speaker C:All right, so how can I.
Speaker C:The buck can never stop with me.
Speaker C:It will never stop with me.
Speaker C:So I'm teaching.
Speaker C:I'm already teaching.
Speaker C:I'm planning to do some more kind of barbecue things on the farm.
Speaker C:And so I'm working closely with some high school students as well as some culinary students here who have interest in smoking meats.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, you know, I look forward to teaching any moment that I can do that, I sign up for it.
Speaker A:You said you like farmers markets and pop ups and things like that.
Speaker A:Do you, do you actually present the barbecue or you were talking about you smoked strawberries to make jam out of them, which I think is.
Speaker A:Sounds delicious, but yeah, I'd love some.
Speaker A:I'll send you my address.
Speaker C:Okay, yeah, I'll send you something.
Speaker A:Maybe we can trade.
Speaker A:I'll trade you some of Leanne's pig powder, which she will send you, and then you can send me the strawberries.
Speaker C:100.
Speaker C:I send me your address, I'll get it to you.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:But you know, what I'm saying is you go out local here, you've been on national television, you got a restaurant, you're doing all this stuff.
Speaker A:How important is it?
Speaker A:I'll just simplify it like this.
Speaker A:How important is it for you to stay connected to the local scene.
Speaker C:Oh, extremely important.
Speaker C:You know, if your community, where you live or reside, they have to be the ones to support you first.
Speaker C:Like, you know, I love everyone who supports Michelle.
Speaker C:I've gotten a lot of amazing feedback from being on all the shows.
Speaker C:But home is home.
Speaker C:You got, and you have to take care of home.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And I.
Speaker C:These people are essentially families.
Speaker C:They're extensions of what you do.
Speaker C:They support you, and we talk about supporting local.
Speaker C:And I believe that I'm grateful for every single person that comes to my markets and show up and show love.
Speaker C:And so it is extremely important to make sure that the home team is getting taken care of.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:What do you do?
Speaker A:It happens to all of us.
Speaker A:There's 1 in 253,142 people that says, I don't like this.
Speaker A:How do you deal with that?
Speaker A:Me?
Speaker A:I just throw stuff at it.
Speaker C:No, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker C:I really.
Speaker C:I try to listen to what they're saying and then see if there's anything in my repertoire, see if anything of what I'm serving that can fit into what they actually like.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker C:And then if they're promising me, like, the next.
Speaker C:When are you going to come in again?
Speaker C:And I might try to make something up and have it ready for them, just specifically for them.
Speaker C:And so for me, when someone's able to tell me that they don't like something on my menu, that gives me an opportunity, a small window to actually connect with them.
Speaker C:And that's hearing firsthand what consumers might want.
Speaker C:There might be 100 people who think just like that person.
Speaker C:And so I try to say, okay, cool, this doesn't work for you, but what does?
Speaker C:And then if there's something that I can do to make that person happy, I'll try to execute it.
Speaker C:Because you never know.
Speaker C:It might be a winner on the menu later.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So if Leanne and I walked into your restaurant, what would you service?
Speaker C:Oh, I really have been into this whole smoking goat thing, but I do this cabrito collard greens, but it's smoked goat braised collard greens with some butter beans in it.
Speaker C:And so good.
Speaker C:And I make this cornbread croutons to go with it.
Speaker C:It's chef's kiss.
Speaker D:It's delicious.
Speaker C:Yeah, but, yeah, I would make you that.
Speaker C:And then I also a smoked oxtail grilled cheese, and it's really good.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's all good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Look, if Leanne comes to Houston, you have to give Her a bib, though, because she gets a little messy.
Speaker A:She gets real excited.
Speaker C:No, I'm sure she eats just like a lady.
Speaker C:She looks.
Speaker D:So do you serve a traditional barbecue or is.
Speaker D:Or is it all.
Speaker D:Because it sounds like your menu's kind of fancy a little bit.
Speaker C:You know, like I said earlier, I do things in a non traditional way.
Speaker C:So I learned traditional Texas style barbecue right in the process.
Speaker C:And from time to time, you'll see I'll pull out smoking a brisket, you know, and I'll pull out smoking some ribs or whatever.
Speaker C:But mostly I usually take smoked goods and then flip it into a different dish.
Speaker C:And so that's what you'll see.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, I like that.
Speaker A:I like that a lot.
Speaker A:What are you working on now?
Speaker A:Because just in the last.
Speaker A:What's this, the 23rd minute of the interview here or something, you've told me about a half a dozen things that you've created in that.
Speaker A:But what are you working on now?
Speaker C:So now actually just to slightly actually correct you a little bit, I actually don't have a brick and mortar.
Speaker C:Most of my events are at farmer's markets and pop ups and I actually kind of love it that way.
Speaker C:I've been in restaurants for over 20 years now, and so I am working on getting a series of farm dinners done.
Speaker C:But the focus point on barbecuing.
Speaker C:And so I have access to this big barrel pit.
Speaker C:I have an in ground pit.
Speaker C:And so I'm gonna bring some of my chef friends.
Speaker C:Maybe I can get you guys to come out too.
Speaker C:But what we do, what the plan is to sell tickets for, people can have this experience at a pit.
Speaker C:People from different backgrounds.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And where everything has to be done on a pit, whether it's high heat, slow, low and slow, however we do it.
Speaker C:But just have some fun, eat some barbecue and just kind of learn a few things.
Speaker C:They'll be able to kind of mix and mingle with us, but I'm working on that.
Speaker C:Hopefully I can get that launched today, this year, sometime.
Speaker C:What else?
Speaker C:I've been traveling a lot.
Speaker C:Being on Top Chef has been really life changing.
Speaker C:And I'll be in Portland next week actually for a pop up.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:And I get a chance to showcase a lot of my barbecue skills.
Speaker C:I'm working with ton charcoal.
Speaker C:We're going to do some grilling of meats out there.
Speaker C:What else am I working on?
Speaker C:I have a few things that I really can't talk about right now, but so people have to just stay tuned in.
Speaker A:Well, you'll have to send me exactly when and where you're going to be, and I'll try to break away and come see you when you're up there.
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker C:Oh, yes.
Speaker C:I would love that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's called Someday Bar, and I'm not sure if you're familiar with ton charcoal, but they do.
Speaker C:They sell the Japanese style grills, but they also sell charcoal as well.
Speaker C:And so we met at Southern Smoke, which is a big festival raising money for people in the industry, and we built a great relationship, and they invited me out to come cook and smoke and grill some meat.
Speaker C:So I'll be out there.
Speaker C:February 5th and 6th is a pop up at Someday Bar, but I'll send it to you for sure.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'll see if I can make that.
Speaker A:That would be fun.
Speaker C:That's fun.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:We'll get on FaceTime with Leanne and.
Speaker D:And then don't make me jealous that I want to be eating her food.
Speaker C:Leanne, what city are you in?
Speaker D:I'm in Tampa.
Speaker C:You're in Tampa.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:So a little far from Portland, but my daughter's in the Portland area, so I'll have to let her know.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:And I.
Speaker C:I just admire you, Leanne.
Speaker C:I think you're phenomenal.
Speaker D:Thank you.
Speaker D:I appreciate it.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's.
Speaker D:It's.
Speaker D:It's tough being a woman in this industry, isn't it?
Speaker C:Yes, yes.
Speaker C:Sometimes.
Speaker D:Sometime you can work it to your advantage.
Speaker D:So there's pluses and minuses, as you know, 100%.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I.
Speaker A:Leanne, you know, she reached for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, so.
Speaker A:And you.
Speaker D:They didn't make it.
Speaker A:They didn't make it.
Speaker A:Well, neither did Houston, so.
Speaker A:Yeah, you put up.
Speaker A:Both of them.
Speaker A:Put up.
Speaker A:Valiant efforts.
Speaker C:Indeed, Indeed.
Speaker A:But they got smoked in the end.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like that.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:So do you ever have desires to.
Speaker A:God, I really hope you say no to this.
Speaker A:Do you ever have desires to come into the, like, the.
Speaker A:The rub business and sauce business?
Speaker A:It seems like everybody we talk to and look at her, look at her, look at that face saying, oh, yeah, I've got my new line, but, you know, that's a tough gig, too.
Speaker C:Yeah, no, it's actually the answer to that.
Speaker C:I agree with you.
Speaker C:There's so many.
Speaker C:I mean, what new ways are we actually putting rubs?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:You know, everyone has a lot of the same things.
Speaker C:I told you guys earlier, I am very much unconventional.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so I have different things.
Speaker C:If you kind of look through my page, like, I've met the only thing that I'VE ever done that has some level of seasoning to it is my smoked brisket salt.
Speaker C:So there was one day I burned a couple briskets terribly, right?
Speaker C:And I'm like, gosh, I've wasted this money.
Speaker C:And, you know, but they weren't so far gone, right?
Speaker C:They just were dry.
Speaker C:And so I took the flats, and I was like, what can I do with this?
Speaker C:I dehydrated them.
Speaker C:And then I grounded it, mixed it with salt, and I turned it into a smoked brisket salt.
Speaker C:And it's like smoky, beefy kind of thing.
Speaker C:And so I make that and put it on, like, popcorn.
Speaker C:That's really all I put it on.
Speaker C:So that's the only thing I've ever done.
Speaker C:But, like, things like my smoked strawberry jam, things like, you know, my.
Speaker C:I make this collard green sauce verde, if you're familiar with, like, the Italian, almost like a chimichurri type thing.
Speaker C:Like, those are the kinds of things that I get excited about and I think people get excited about because they're a little bit different.
Speaker C:And so I've been working on a few things like that, but no seasonings or anything like that.
Speaker A:I vote Michelle, the smartest guest that we've had on in the last year, because she said no to that.
Speaker A:Anyway, we're going to take a break.
Speaker A:We're going to be back in the Nation with Leanne and Michelle and myself right after this.
Speaker A:Don't go away.
Speaker B:Hey, everybody, it's JT.
Speaker B:You know, I talk about painted hills all the time, and we always say beef the way nature intended.
Speaker B:But it's more than that because each bite of painted hills will make your taste buds explode.
Speaker B:Put a big, bright smile on your face, and whoever's at your dinner table will have a big bright smile on their face.
Speaker B:And you can thank me for that later.
Speaker B:Just go to paintedhillsbeef.com and find out more.
Speaker A:You won't regret it.
Speaker B:Hey, everybody, J.T.
Speaker A:Here.
Speaker B:I want to tell you about the Hammerstahl knives.
Speaker B:Hammerstahl combines German steel with beautiful and functioning designs.
Speaker B:They're part of the Heritage Steel group, which also does their pots and pans.
Speaker B:So go to heritagesteel us.
Speaker B:Check out the Hammer Stahl knives.
Speaker B:If you're really into cooking, I think you're really gonna.
Speaker A:Welcome back to the Nation.
Speaker A:I forgot to do something last segment.
Speaker A:Speaking of ripping on people and spices, Leanne, tell us about pig powder.
Speaker D:So, gosh, pig powder.
Speaker D:Yeah, spicy pig powder is right around the corner.
Speaker D:As I've been saying for a couple weeks now.
Speaker D:But it just takes a while to get it launched, so I'm excited about that coming out.
Speaker D:You can get pig powder@pigpowder.com or on Amazon, and it is sweet with a little bit of spice to it and can be used on collard greens like she was talking about.
Speaker C:I'm gonna order.
Speaker C:I am definitely ordering some.
Speaker D:It's nice.
Speaker D:No, I'll send you some.
Speaker D:It really is very versatile and good on french fries, baked beans, you name it.
Speaker D:And won the award of best rub on the planet.
Speaker D:And thanks to my dad, it did.
Speaker A:And it is.
Speaker A:And I used some on some salmon the other night.
Speaker D:Salmon be delicious.
Speaker A:We kind of did.
Speaker A:I was looking at that segment, that last segment we did on the TV show, and I had.
Speaker A:I think I had used some pig powder on that or one of them.
Speaker D:I can't remember.
Speaker A:Yeah, but.
Speaker D:But it is good on salmon.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:I made some salmon the other night, and it was quite good.
Speaker A:And the little.
Speaker A:There was a little happy red top, you know, jar there with a little cute pig on it.
Speaker D:So I was just at the Lakeland Barbecue Pig Fest this weekend and cooked a couple hundred pounds of tenderloin and pork butts and had something better there.
Speaker D:So it was good.
Speaker A:Like, it good for you.
Speaker A:Okay, Michelle.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:When this, when this next segment is over, then we do a thing called After Hours.
Speaker A:And I'm just going to forewarn you because that's where you can swear and we have to bleep out Leanne sometime.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker D:Not true.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:So we're just wrapping up the regular show here.
Speaker A:Is there anything that you.
Speaker A:You haven't done in the.
Speaker A:Just talk about barbecue for a second that you want to do with barbecue?
Speaker C:That's a great question.
Speaker C:Is there anything that I haven't done that I want to do in barbecue?
Speaker C:I've only ever smoked a whole pig once, and one of my dreams is really to smoke a whole pig.
Speaker C:But in Hawaii before, until that's able to happen, I would love to do more kind of whole animal smokes, if that makes sense like that.
Speaker C:You know, I would love to do more of that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:But no, like, I really, you know, when I used to work with Greg, he'd be like, wallace, bring it in, bring it in.
Speaker C:I have an idea.
Speaker C:He's like, no, but, you know, my parents are really just amazing.
Speaker C:My father is no longer with us, but.
Speaker C:But they really taught us early on, like, don't be afraid to take chances.
Speaker C:They may not all work, but don't be afraid.
Speaker C:And so I really have lived by just kind of going for the gusto.
Speaker C:I failed a lot of times or things didn't work quite how I thought it.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I usually try to do whatever I can think of, and if I can't think of it, that means I need to learn it.
Speaker C:And so I really try to be open to learning.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I would love to smoke more.
Speaker C:Whole kind of animals, a whole pig, whole lamb, all that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'll tell you a very quick story.
Speaker A:I'm full of stories.
Speaker A:That's not what Leanne says I'm full of, but I am full of stories.
Speaker A:All right, so we did a little family vacation in November, and we went to Hawaii.
Speaker A:And in fact, my in laws from Houston went with us, and we go to this Luau.
Speaker A:My wife and my sister in law had this all planned, and we get this VIP treatment.
Speaker A:Treatment at Luau and all that.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:It was lovely.
Speaker A:It was fun and all this.
Speaker A:But of course, you're.
Speaker A:You know, they got a.
Speaker A:They got a pig in the ground, right?
Speaker A:So everybody gets to go over and watch the pig taken out of the ground.
Speaker A:This was not much bigger than a wiener pig.
Speaker A:And there was, like, there was 350 people there.
Speaker C:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:And Jerome and I are looking at that pig coming out of there, and they make a big deal about it, and they play over it and all that stuff, which is cool, you know?
Speaker A:Know, and they bring it up, and they.
Speaker A:They got two guys carrying it because they still got the.
Speaker A:The rod running through it, and they got gloves on.
Speaker A:But this pig is like this big.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker A:That wouldn't even feed our table.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:That's a showpiece.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Winnie the Pooh didn't see it because he'd been really upset.
Speaker A:You know, like, out of all the TV shows that you've been on, and I'm assuming you will be on more.
Speaker A:Without giving away any secrets, which one was your fav.
Speaker A:To do?
Speaker C:Probably Top Chef, although it was the most intense.
Speaker C:But that's why it's my favorite.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:It really, really pushes you to the limit.
Speaker C:And there are no.
Speaker C:There are no reprieve from that competition.
Speaker C:So you don't.
Speaker C:You know, we're not.
Speaker C:We're not able to watch television.
Speaker C:We're not able to call.
Speaker C:Like, I couldn't call my boyfriend.
Speaker C:I couldn't speak with my sister.
Speaker C:There were no.
Speaker C:All you have is 14 other people who are in this stressful environment for weeks.
Speaker C:You know what I mean?
Speaker C:And it really tests you.
Speaker C:It tests you mentally.
Speaker C:It tests you physically and to be able to go as far as I did, I did not win.
Speaker C:Sad about that.
Speaker C:But, you know, I still made it to, you know, the top five.
Speaker C:And to go that far, you know, really, really.
Speaker C:I'm definitely proud of myself for, you know, even going out for the show, but then also making it that far, so.
Speaker C:And then being impressive, like, to still be able to put up to think as quickly as you need to think and to execute at that level, you know, I'm definitely proud of myself for going.
Speaker C:Going through that.
Speaker A:Good for you.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:I think I have PTSD from it, but, yeah, I'm so proud.
Speaker A:The show I did, which was a long time ago, didn't really have anything to do with barbecue.
Speaker A:It was called Deep Fry Master.
Speaker A:Horrible show.
Speaker A:And, you know, it was funny because it was supposed to be about the Texas State fairs, and we filmed it in Atlanta and it was raining, so we had to film everything indoors and this and that.
Speaker A:And I'm used to television production schedules like Leanne is and stuff, but we were still filming at 2 in the morning because they.
Speaker A:They actually had to move everything indoors from the.
Speaker A:We had a kind of an abandoned fairgrounds.
Speaker A:The worst part of the trip, even though, you know, I made it through, like, episodes and They 86 Me, which is fine, was getting home.
Speaker A:I can't.
Speaker A:I couldn't get the hell out of Atlanta.
Speaker C:And then I had.
Speaker A:And then I had to go to Philadelphia and wait for six hours before I could.
Speaker A:That was.
Speaker A:It was not a good trip, is the only thing I can say.
Speaker A:It was not a good trip.
Speaker A:So if you had a message to give to people right now, Michelle, what would it be?
Speaker C:My message is, you know, always one.
Speaker C:First and foremost, just have fun with it, right?
Speaker C:We're not saving lives, but we are enjoying each other right through food.
Speaker C:And don't be afraid to fail.
Speaker C:I swear, it gets you.
Speaker C:It makes you so much better.
Speaker C:It keeps you humble, it keeps you light on your toes.
Speaker C:But just don't be afraid to try things and then don't be afraid to fail.
Speaker C:It's in the getting up, up and trying again and doing again is what makes you great.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, that's my message.
Speaker A:Okay, good one.
Speaker A:All right, and last question for the regular show.
Speaker A:What's your favorite thing to eat?
Speaker A:We've talked about all this food and all this stuff, but I haven't asked you what's your favorite thing to eat?
Speaker C:My favorite thing to eat are one, potatoes.
Speaker C:I love potatoes.
Speaker C:Any way you do it.
Speaker C:French fries, hash browns, whatever.
Speaker C:But if you make me choose.
Speaker C:I love a good grilled hamburger cheeseburger.
Speaker C:One of my favorite things to eat.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I like it a different kind of ways.
Speaker C:I like it with mushrooms.
Speaker C:I like it with jalapenos.
Speaker C:I like it with chili.
Speaker C:Like, give me a good burger.
Speaker C:I'm a happy gal.
Speaker A:Okay, and how can people find you on the web and stuff?
Speaker A:Find out more about you and all.
Speaker C:Yes, people can find me@chef MichelleWallace.com you can also find me on Instagram at Between the Slices.
Speaker C:I have not tapped into the TikTok and all that other stuff.
Speaker C:I have an account, but I'm not very active.
Speaker C:So head over to Instagram, which is where I do most of my updating, and it's between the Slices.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Michelle Wallace, good luck with everything.
Speaker A:Michelle is going to stick around for after hours.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:We can abuse her for the next 15 minutes.
Speaker A:So we got to get out of.
Speaker A:Thanks, everybody, for listening.
Speaker A:We'll be back next week with another edition of Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:Remember our motto here.
Speaker A:Turn it, don't burn it.
Speaker A:Go out and make some good food and have fun.
Speaker A:Take care, everybody.
Speaker A:Barbecue Nation is produced by JTSD LLC Productions in association with Salem Media Group.
Speaker A:All rights reserved.
