Meathead - Thanksgiving Special 2024
Thanksgiving can be a challenging holiday for many, especially when it comes to cooking the perfect turkey. In this episode of Barbecue Nation, hosts Jeff and JT are joined by hall of famers Leanne Whippen and Meathead Goldwyn, who share invaluable tips to help listeners navigate their Thanksgiving feasts without making common mistakes. They discuss the importance of proper timing, the benefits of dry brining, and the art of seasoning to ensure a moist and flavorful turkey. The conversation also touches on creative ideas for stuffing and gravy, emphasizing the joy of gathering around a shared meal. Tune in for expert insights that will elevate your holiday cooking and make your Thanksgiving dinner a memorable occasion.
Thanksgiving often presents a unique culinary challenge, and the experts on Barbecue Nation are here to share their tips and insights for a successful holiday feast. With hosts Jeff and JT alongside culinary luminaries Leanne Whippen and Meathead Goldwyn, the conversation dives deep into the intricacies of preparing the perfect Thanksgiving turkey. The episode emphasizes the importance of timing, preparation, and technique, which are critical to navigating the complexities of Thanksgiving cooking. Leanne highlights the need for advance preparation, suggesting that side dishes can be made ahead of time and reheated, alleviating some of the holiday stress. The panel discusses dry brining and how salting the turkey in advance can significantly enhance its moisture retention and flavor, making the turkey not only juicy but also the star of the show.
Meathead advocates for simple yet effective cooking methods that ensure the turkey is cooked to perfection without the pitfalls of common Thanksgiving mistakes. He shares his philosophy on dry brining, emphasizing that salt is the key to flavor enhancement, while Jeff adds his perspective on the significance of managing oven space and timing. The episode showcases a wealth of knowledge, from spatchcocking techniques to creative stuffing options, providing listeners with practical advice to elevate their Thanksgiving meal. The experts also touch on the emotional significance of Thanksgiving, highlighting how it serves as a unifying holiday centered around food—a time for family, gratitude, and shared experiences.
Listeners are treated to a wealth of recipes and cooking strategies, including the importance of ensuring all ingredients are prepped and ready to go, allowing for a smoother cooking experience. The episode culminates in a celebration of food and community, reminding everyone that Thanksgiving is not just about the meal but also about the connections and memories created around the dinner table. This discussion is a must-listen for anyone looking to refine their Thanksgiving cooking skills and ensure their holiday is filled with delicious food and joyful gatherings.
Takeaways:
- Thanksgiving can be challenging due to cooking for larger groups and timing dishes correctly.
- Dry brining turkey with salt ahead of time enhances moisture retention and flavor.
- Instead of cooking stuffing inside the turkey, consider making stuffing muffins for better texture.
- Using a pan underneath the turkey to catch drippings can create a flavorful gravy.
- Cooking turkey in pieces ensures optimal cooking temperatures and juiciness for each part.
- Thanksgiving is a unique holiday centered around food and togetherness, transcending divisions.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- AmazingRibs.com
- Heritage Steel
- Painted Hills
- Oregon Dungeness Crab Commission
- Pig Powder
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
It's time for Barbecue Nation with JT.
Jeff:So fire up your grill, light the charcoal, and get your smoker cooking.
JT:Now from the Turnit Don't Burn it.
Jeff:Studios in Portland, here's jt.
Jeff:Hey, everybody.
Jeff:Welcome to the nation, Barbecue Nation.
Jeff:I'm JT along with two hall of Famers today because it's Thanksgiving coming up and we don't want you to make one mistake.
Jeff:So of course, we've got hall of famer, my co host, Leanne Whippen, and hall of famer meathead Goldwyn from AmazingRibs.com or as he just likes to be called, Meathead.
Jeff:So we're going to jump right into it.
Jeff:Thanksgiving.
Jeff:I actually think Thanksgiving is a harder holiday for most people.
Jeff:Not for us, but for most people to cook for because of the size of the bird, all the side dishes, trying to get your timing correct and all that.
Jeff:I'd like to get your take on that straight out of the gate.
JT:Who goes first?
Jeff:Ladies.
Jeff:Ladies first.
Leanne Whippen:Oh, okay.
Leanne Whippen:Well, most people don't cook for mass quantities of people, and usually Thanksgiving, you're cooking for a lot more.
Leanne Whippen:So that, that's one caveat there that makes it more difficult.
Leanne Whippen:But I think Thanksgiving dinner sides are things that you can make ahead of time and warm up.
Leanne Whippen:So I think that people don't have to be so stressed out that they can try to do that.
Jeff:That's, that's good.
Jeff:I mean, we all do that, that cook for the scrambling hordes.
Jeff:But I do think as far as trying to time, you know, you can't really make your mashed potatoes ahead of time.
Jeff:At least I never found the secret to that.
Jeff:And then, you know, managing your turkey, even if you're spatchcocking it, somebody's got to be paying attention.
Jeff:Now, if you do do what they do at Meathead's house, he does the turkey for the family and he spatchcocks it.
Jeff:But I don't think he does anything else but eat pie.
Jeff:Am I correct?
JT:Stuffing, Stuffing, Stuffing.
Jeff:Yes, that's true.
JT:I love stuffing.
JT:I think I like it better than the turkey.
JT:But to your question, you know, there's a lot of recipes and websites and newspapers and magazines that purport to give you the solution to the ultimate turkey.
JT:And I am among them.
JT:And the technique I espouse on AmazingRibs.com and by the way, if you go to our website and sign up for our newsletter now, we send you a 70 plus page ebook on cooking for Thanksgiving focused on turkey.
JT:Several different techniques for turkey, including the technique I use but at the bottom line, it's really not hard.
JT:I mean, basically all you need to do is just sprinkle it with a little salt a day or two in advance, and that makes a little difference.
JT:If you don't have time to do that, then it's not the end of the world.
JT:And roast it at around 325, 350 until it reaches 160 in the breast and you're done.
JT:Now, there's a hundred different variations, and I'm sure we'll get into it today about seasoning it and rubbing it and what to do with the cavity and so on.
JT:And if you want to, you know, make incremental improvements till it is spectacular, we can share some of our tricks and techniques with you.
Jeff:Sure.
Jeff:I'm not a.
Jeff:Well, let's jump right in to one that you see a lot out there.
Jeff:I'm not a big branding guy now.
Jeff:I know some people swear by it.
Jeff:That's perfectly fine.
Jeff:I'm more of the thought.
Jeff:And rub some salt on the skin and a little bit on the cavity, just for grins and giggles.
Jeff:And that's kind of my deal.
Jeff:I do it that way.
JT:Well, salting, we've talked about this before, but it's worth repeating briefly.
JT:Salt is the magic rock.
JT:Salt is just sodium chloride, two atoms.
JT:Sugar is 23, 24 atoms for most sugars or more.
JT:Salt can.
JT:When it gets wet on the surface of the turkey, it splits into sodium and chloride ions, and they can migrate deep into the turkey.
JT:And when they get there, they can alter the shape of the protein so that it holds moisture better.
Jeff:Right.
JT:So salt is really crucial.
JT:If you put sugar and black pepper and garlic, they don't go past the skin.
JT:They can't.
JT:The molecules are too large.
JT:So they'll flavor the exterior, which is fine, but they don't affect the interior or the moisture level or anything else like that.
JT:For a while there, about a decade or so ago, everybody was taking their turkeys and dunking them in a big bucket or a beer cooler full of apple juice and black pepper and garlic and all sorts of goodies and salt.
JT:And of course, in the process, the salt would penetrate.
JT:The other stuff just gets on the surface.
Jeff:Right.
JT:But everybody seemed to think it would get in there.
JT:But if you cut open a turkey breast, you're not going to taste apple juice or garlic.
JT:So we've migrated.
JT:I've been a proponent of a technique called dry brining, which is basically what you just described.
JT:And today, son of a gun, the New York Times finally woke Up Eric Kim, who's a brilliant cook, and he's espousing dry brining, which, of course, I've been espousing for more than a decade.
JT:And basically, it's just a matter of sprinkle some salt on there.
JT:A day in advance is nice to give the salt time to penetrate.
Jeff:He.
JT:He likes two or three days.
JT:That's fine, too, if you want.
JT:But salt will penetrate and it will do its magic.
JT:And you don't need to do any other stuff.
JT:You don't need the apple juice.
JT:You don't need the salt, the garlic, the pepper.
JT:You can put that on.
JT:And you probably do want to season the skin.
JT:I like herbs on the skin of rosemary, thyme, that sort of thing.
JT:But that you can put on just before you cook.
JT:You don't need to do that in advance because it's not traveling at all.
JT:So, yes, your technique of sprinkling it with salt, you put a little more on the thick pieces, like the breast than you would on the wings, and away you go.
Leanne Whippen:So do you wash it off?
JT:No, no.
JT:It goes in.
JT:It doesn't stay on the surface.
JT:It goes in.
JT:Do the same with steak.
JT:Do the same with burgers.
JT:It penetrates.
JT:It gets drawn in, and it penetrates.
JT:It doesn't pull out the moisture.
JT:It doesn't dry.
JT:If you've sprinkled a rub, which if you buy a commercial rubber and you sprinkle it on meat, you often see it pulls liquid out.
JT:But it's not the salt pulling the liquid out.
JT:It's the sugar and the other stuff.
JT:The salt goes in, and it stays in and it doesn't come out.
JT:And it does its magic.
JT:It helps moisturize the bird, and it's pretty simple to do.
JT:I use Morton kosher salt.
JT:My rule of thumb is a half a teaspoon per pound, but you obviously want to put it on a little heavier on the breasts.
JT:And then you would on the drumstick or the wings.
Jeff:You do that same process on when you're just buying a breast versus the whole bird, because they got those for sale.
Jeff:And what if it's skinless?
Jeff:There's some people that don't like skin.
Jeff:I don't know why or what planet they came from, but same thing.
JT:Yeah, I love the skin.
JT:Yeah, same thing.
JT:I mean, just sprinkle it again.
JT:Salt amplifies the flavor without altering it.
JT:Garlic alters the flavor.
JT:Sugar alters the flavor.
JT:Herbs alter the flavor.
JT:Salt doesn't.
JT:It just turns the dial up to 11.
Jeff:So another question.
Jeff:You made a post I think yesterday or the day before I actually read your stuff.
Jeff:I think you figure out once in a while I give it a like, you know, and I'm guilty of trying this.
Jeff:I fell forward about 20 years ago or so.
Jeff:Cooking the turkey upside down, thinking that the juice was gonna run down and do that doesn't do a damn thing.
JT:But what you another one of these trends that caught on on the Internet?
JT:Yeah, even before the Internet.
JT:There's no superhighways in turkey.
JT:There's no.
JT:I mean, the moisture that is in meat is trapped within cells.
JT:It's trapped within muscle fibers.
JT:It's also in between muscle fibers.
JT:It's not like blood that has vessels where, you know, if you stand on your head, the blood will rush to your head.
JT:That doesn't happen with any meat.
JT:Turkey, chicken, breast side down, breast side up.
JT:It's not going to enhance the moisture.
JT:The moisture stays.
JT:Otherwise, you know, you cook breast side down.
JT:So what are you going to have?
JT:Dry drumsticks?
JT:No, it just.
JT:The more the moisture just stays there.
Leanne Whippen:I do, however, think that injecting, you do get the flavors.
JT:Oh, yeah.
JT:Injecting is a very good way to add moisture and flavor.
JT:And a lot of people will just inject with a dilute salt solution, which has the magical effect that salt does.
JT:Others will enhance it.
JT:And you can inject with butter.
JT:Now, if you want to inject with butter, butterballing.
JT:If you want to inject with butter, don't do it when the bird is cold because if you are using a needle, it just clogs up the needle.
JT:Because the cold, even if you're using melted butter, the cold solidifies the butter.
JT:What you need to do is you start cooking and when the bird starts getting warm, like 80, 90 degrees, when butter is still liquid, then you inject during the cooking process.
JT:So you can stick butter in there, you can stick chicken, chicken stock, you know, or just plain salt water.
JT:And there are compounds out there, I know you know about them, that the competition cooks use that have compounds like phosphates and other things which are flavor enhancers and also moisturizers.
Jeff:Yeah, I just.
Jeff:Like I said, and the worst part about it was just because the instructions were cook it upside down for like two hours and then flip it over.
Jeff:What a mess that made.
Jeff:I just remember I had, I had turkey grease everywhere.
JT:Well, there, there was some sense in flipping it and you can avoid that.
JT:But the, the sense is, is most people will cook the turkey in a pan with high sides in a V shaped rack.
JT:So now you put the bird in there.
JT:Now, there's water in the bottom of the pan or liquid in the bottom of the pan.
JT:So the oven is surrounding the top half of the bird with 350, 400, whatever your oven temp is.
JT:But the bottom half, because of the water, can't go above 212.
JT:So now you have a big differential in temperature.
JT:The top half is cooking at 300, 350.
JT:The bottom half is cooking at maybe 225, 250.
JT:And so what you end up with is the bottom half of the bird is flabby and soft and wet and ugly.
JT:So if you flip, then you can brown the under half.
JT:But the better technique is to take it out of that V shaped rack and put a rack on top of the pan so the bird sits above the pan.
JT:Right now, the hot air can circulate all around.
JT:When you put it in the pan, the hot air bounces off the sides, and the cool liquid below prevents the bottom from cooking evenly.
JT:So you just put a rack on top of the pan.
JT:Or if you're cooking it indoors, I know it sounds goofy, but you put the bird right on the oven rack and put the pan on the oven rack below.
JT:Okay.
JT:You got a dirty oven rack.
JT:When you're done, you got to scrub it, but you get that air circulating all around.
JT:Well, of course, on a grill, this is no problem because you put the pan underneath the grill grate and you catch the drippings down there and you put the bird on the grill grate and the warm air circulates all around, all around, all around, all around, and you get a beautifully tan bird.
Jeff:There you go.
Jeff:We're going to take a break.
Jeff:We're going to be back with Meathead from AmazingRibs.com and fellow hall of famer Leanne Whippen right after this.
Jeff:Hey, everybody, it's Jeff here.
Jeff:I want to tell you about something really cool.
Jeff:Heritage steel cookware.
Jeff:I just got mine.
Jeff:I do a lot of cooking and it's got five ply construction.
Jeff:Stay cool handles.
Jeff:It's titanium strengthened.
Jeff:It's got all the great stuff.
Jeff:Just go to Heritage Steel US and find out more.
Jeff:You'll love it.
Jeff:I guarantee it.
Jeff:Welcome back to our Thanksgiving special, how to cook your bird and survive the day.
Jeff:We'd like to thank the folks at the Oregon Crab Commission, Dungeness crab commission.
Jeff:From seed to plate.
Jeff:Great stuff there.
Jeff:Been doing a lot with them this year.
Jeff:Eating a lot of crab too, I might add.
Jeff:But it's really good stuff.
Jeff:We're talking.
JT:Wait A minute.
Jeff:Yeah.
JT:I mean, the light bulb just went off.
JT:I've heard of oyster stuffing for turkey.
Jeff:Yeah.
JT:Why not a crab stuffing?
Jeff:You could.
JT:I mean, that sounds better than oyster stuffing, and I love oysters.
Leanne Whippen:Yeah.
Jeff:Yeah.
Jeff:I'm actually working, you know, crab with.
JT:Some bread, you know, crab cake, essentially.
JT:Make a crab cake.
Leanne Whippen:Exactly.
JT:Right now you're talking.
Jeff:Oh, yeah.
Jeff:It put a sweat on you.
Jeff:I'm actually working on a recipe right now.
Jeff:Not to digress too much, but I got a couple of shows coming up when I get back home to do, and one is kind of a crab frittata for breakfast, like for Christmas Eve breakfast or whenever you celebrate, and there's always that breakfast, but nobody wants to eat too much because you're going to have a big dinner later.
Jeff:So I'm working on this kind of crab frittata thing.
Jeff:So nice work out like that.
Jeff:The one.
Jeff:And I want to go back to this just for a second.
Jeff:And in your article, you were talking about the grain of the meat, why it doesn't work, tipping the bird upside down.
Jeff:Because the grain's horizontal.
Jeff:It's not vertical.
Jeff:Okay.
Jeff:And I don't think most people.
Jeff:Well, nobody thinks like we do.
Jeff:I mean, that's.
Jeff:That goes to show.
Jeff:But I.
Jeff:I thought that was a very valid point for, you know, cousin Bill telling you he has the absolute best way to cook a turkey.
Jeff:Then you got the science right there.
Jeff:So it doesn't work that way, Bill, So.
JT:Well, first of all, it's not.
JT:It's not going anywhere anyhow, under any circumstances, but it.
JT:Yes, that is a fair point.
JT:The grain runs horizontal.
Jeff:Yep, absolutely.
Jeff:So the top of the show, I talked a little bit about timing, and if you do like Meathead does and he's assigned to cook the turkey, timing is a relevant term because he's going to try to match the kitchen and what Lou's doing because he's already eaten two pies.
Jeff:So.
Jeff:Like that, I think.
Jeff:I think that timing thing in any aspect of cooking is one of the real keys there.
Jeff:Leanne, you ran restaurants.
Jeff:You couldn't have your steak done and still waiting for a baked potato to come out of the oven.
Leanne Whippen:That's true.
Jeff:Yeah.
Jeff:Very difficult like that.
Jeff:So when you're working.
Jeff:Leanne, let's start with you.
Jeff:When you're working on your Thanksgiving dinner, what's the very first thing you do?
Jeff:I mean, assuming you've got all the ingredients, the turkeys and this and that, what's the very first thing you do?
Leanne Whippen:Well, a lot of people overlook the defrosting time if they're getting a frozen turkey.
Leanne Whippen:And it takes a long time to defrost a turkey in a refrigerator, a good three days or whatever.
Leanne Whippen:You also need to determine how much turkey you need to feed everyone.
Leanne Whippen:Because you think 10 pound turkey, oh, that's going to feed, you know, 10 people.
Leanne Whippen:It might, but you always want to have leftovers.
Leanne Whippen:So I always go a little bit bigger on my turkeys and I always make my desserts in advance, like pies or whatever kind of dessert.
Leanne Whippen:So that's out of the way.
Leanne Whippen:Yeah.
Leanne Whippen:And you know, mashed potatoes, you can peel your potatoes and put them, you know, with garlic in the water and have that already done and then bring it to a boil.
Leanne Whippen:You know, if you're going to do fresh green beans, you can, you know, cut those in advance.
Leanne Whippen:If you're going to do French green beans, whatever.
Leanne Whippen:So I try to do as much prep as possible possible.
Leanne Whippen:So basically all I'm doing is.
Leanne Whippen:And you have to think about what's going to.
Leanne Whippen:If you have one oven, you have to think about the turkey's get taken up that real estate.
Leanne Whippen:So anything else that's going in the oven, albeit rolls, now, dinner rolls, you could take the turkey out and then put your rolls in, you know, while you're doing that, because they only take 10 minutes or whatever, or if you're just warming them up.
Leanne Whippen:But you got to think about what's being done in the oven and what's being done on the stove.
Leanne Whippen:So you don't want to have anything else going in the oven with your turkey, per se.
Leanne Whippen:So I try to make sure that all of my sides I can do stovetop or that I can heat up, even in a microwave, slowly.
Leanne Whippen:And when I'm taking the turkey out, if I can just hold those foods in that warm oven with the residual heat.
Leanne Whippen:So that's kind of some of the things I think about.
JT:Yeah, well, that's all the more reason to grill or smoke the turkey is that leaves the oven open for more pie.
Leanne Whippen:True.
JT:Yeah, that's true.
Jeff:Absolutely.
Jeff:Now I gotta tell you something fun.
JT:That's cool.
Jeff:Sure.
JT:My wife and one of her nieces, who is an adult now, she's in her 40s, they have for 20 years now.
JT:On Wednesday before Thanksgiving had PI Day.
JT:And it used to just be the two of them, they would get together and bake pies.
JT:But as the family grew, the kids joined the event.
JT:And we've had as many as 14 nieces, nephews from age three on up to 20.
JT:And they all show up for PI Day and they all make pies.
JT:We, we serve three or four pies after dinner.
JT:And of course, it's the standards, apple, pumpkin, and pecan.
JT:But they always do something wild and crazy, you know, fudgy or something.
JT:And then the kids will often make individual pie.
JT:But I just think it's wonderful.
JT:It's a marvelous event.
JT:And they all get together and they have a laugh session for hours and flower everywhere, and it's just very cool.
Jeff:That's the one day a year, folks, that Meathead does not leave the house.
Jeff:That's it.
JT:It's not here.
JT:And I'm not invited.
Jeff:Oh, my God, the trauma.
JT:And you can guess why.
Jeff:So something you just touched on, and this is the voice of experience here.
Jeff:If you're gonna, like, cook your turkey in a pellet grill, make sure your pellet grill has been cleaned.
Jeff:Make sure that there's fresh pellets, that the burn pot is clean.
Jeff:If you can get a vacuum up through the auger, get that clean.
Jeff:We are in November, a lot more moisture in the air and all that.
Jeff:And I can tell you that I'm fortunate enough to have a couple of pellet grills.
Jeff:Most people don't.
Jeff:And I learned the hard way out there.
Jeff:My future son in law came in one day on Thanksgiving and he said, is it supposed to be smoking like that?
Jeff:And I said, well, it's, you know, just getting started.
Jeff:He goes, no, no, no.
Jeff:And I looked out there and it was ugly and didn't really hurt the turkey, but it was, it was a mess in the, in the thing in the smoker.
Jeff:So just word of experience there.
Jeff:Make sure your auger is working.
Jeff:You got fresh pellets.
Jeff:Like I said, it's cleaned out.
Jeff:The grates are cleaned out.
Jeff:Especially if you want to try to do what Meathead said.
Jeff:If you've got a two, two rack tear system in there and you want to put a pan below your bird, whatever, even if you're spatchcocking, make sure it's cleaned up there.
Jeff:That's Jeff's words of wisdom for you.
Jeff:Amen.
Jeff:Yeah.
Jeff:We're going to take a quick break and step away for a few minutes.
Jeff:Leanne and Meathead and I will be right back with our Thanksgiving special.
Jeff:Hey, everybody, it's JT and I have eaten, if you've ever looked at me.
Jeff:You know that.
Jeff:But I have eaten seafood all over the world, and I can tell you there's no place better than here in Oregon and our Dungeness crab, if you want to Learn more about Oregon Dungeness crab.
Jeff:Just go to oregondungeness.org and find out how to cook it, how to catch it, where to buy it, and the sustainability of what they're doing there in the Oregon Crab Commission.
Jeff:Check it out.
JT:Hi, I'm Stan Hayes.
Jeff:I'm the co founder and CEO of Operation Barbecue Relief.
JT:And you are listening to Jeff and.
Jeff:Leanne on Barbecue Nation.
Jeff:Welcome back to the Barbecue Nation Thanksgiving special with Leanne Whippen and meathead from AmazingRibs.com two frequent faces here on the show, and we always love them without pie.
Jeff:Now, Meathead, I know this is going to send you into convulsions, but without pie.
Jeff:What's your favorite part of the Thanksgiving dinner?
JT:The stuffing.
JT:I love stuffing.
JT:I actually, I mean, I really work hard at the bird and I do some fun stuff with the bird and I make it as good as I possibly can and I've tried every technique on earth and it's about as good as you can get turkey.
JT:But when you get down to it, turkey is kind of bland.
JT:Even if you've injected it and you seasoned it and you've dry brined it and cooked it to exactly the right temperature and everything, it's not a real strong, flavorful piece of meat.
JT:Not even as strong as chicken.
JT:But boy, that's stuffing.
JT:If you get it, get to work on that.
JT:And just a basic, you know, go to the Pepperidge Farm box, read the recipe off the box.
JT:That's a good one.
JT:But there's a bazillion different fun stuffing.
JT:I mean, we talked about oysters stuffing.
JT:I've seen that out there.
JT:I've never tried it, but I know people make it Cornbread stuffing with chorizo or andouille.
JT:I've seen, we have a recipe on our website that I have tried for slider stuffing.
JT:You get frozen hamburgers in a box, sliders, and you chop them up, you throw them in the blender and you add some chicken stock and other things.
JT:Makes a really nice stuffing.
JT:Just a whole bunch of fun stuffings.
JT:But I make a pretty standard sage based breadcrumb stuffing and we save breadcrumbs.
JT:And from all, you know, we just had a loaf of French bread the other day.
JT:We're cutting it up and we were using it and there was a big pile of crumbs left.
JT:We save it in a jar and that goes into stuffing.
JT:And but my favorite thing, and you mentioned it earlier, is first of all, you do not want to put stuffing in the bird.
JT:And I think we're all three agreed on that?
Leanne Whippen:No.
JT:No.
JT:Okay.
JT:Okay.
JT:I will make the case that when you stuff the bird, you have to cook the stuffing because the juices in the turkey are not safe.
JT:And the juices in the turkey get into the stuffing.
JT:So the center of the stuffing must be cooked to a safe temperature, which is 160.
JT:Or USDA says 165.
JT:I think 160 is safe.
JT:So you've got to cook the stuffing to 160.
JT:Well, if warm air is working its way down through the skin, into the meat, into the stuffing, to the center of the stuffing, while it's progressing, it's heating the exterior of the bird.
JT:The skin and the outer layers are warming up, and they get hotter than the interior because the heat builds up in the outside and water evaporates.
JT:And so you're going to end up with a drier bird.
JT:You've essentially, you're cooking a bowling ball.
JT:It's a big thermal mass.
JT:And so you're just flirting with dry turkey, I think.
JT:Now, I love the stuffing, but the juices from the bird are really not altering the stuffing much.
Jeff:Right.
JT:So if you're going to do a Norman Rockwell bird, don't put the stuffing in there because it'll cook faster if warm air can get into the cavity and not.
JT:Don't stick oranges in there and other things, let warm air get in there, it'll cook faster, and you'll have a moister bird.
JT:What I like to do with the stuffing is I make the stuffing and I'll mix in a little egg.
JT:And if you go to amazingribs.com we have a recipe there for what I call stuffing muffins, because I put them in a muffin pan.
JT:And that way everybody gets a muffin made of stuffing that has a really crispy top, and everybody wants crispy stuffing.
JT:And when you stuff the bird, there's just that little round section sticking out of the back end that gets crispy.
JT:All the rest is very soft and wet.
JT:When you make stuffing muffins, you get crispy around the edges, crispy around the top, and they just look cool.
JT:A muffin full of stuffing and everybody gets exactly the same amount.
JT:Nobody gets more crispy than anybody else.
JT:And I think the bird will cook faster and better without the stuffing.
JT:Now you can.
JT:You can refute me, please.
Leanne Whippen:I guess it's just.
Leanne Whippen:I like that Norman Rockwell.
Jeff:I have never.
Leanne Whippen:I've never really had trouble with my stuffing coming to temp and the breast meat.
Leanne Whippen:And I'm a brine person, whether it be dry or wet, to help with that moisture.
Leanne Whippen:And that usually gets me out of the problem of a dry turkey breast.
Jeff:So the next question is, and I'll go first, giblets or no giblets.
Jeff:I'm a big giblet fan, and I've talked about this before.
Jeff:I grew up on a farm.
Jeff:We didn't waste anything.
Jeff:We have a store here in my little town that actually sells big packages of turkey giblets.
Jeff:And I buy two packages.
Jeff:Don't everybody get grossed out now, one to cook for me that I munch on for two or three days, and one that I cook, trim, and slice up and put in the stuffing.
Jeff:And sometimes I put them in the gravy, depending on who the audience is, you might say.
Jeff:And some people are just a gas that, you know, you're eating an organ like that.
Jeff:To me, it's just a kind of a.
Jeff:Another version of dark meat.
Jeff:So there's my case for that.
Leanne Whippen:I use it to make my stock, and that's what I use in the stuffing.
Leanne Whippen:So.
Leanne Whippen:But don't use the liver.
Jeff:No, no, no, no.
Leanne Whippen:Because the liver will make, you know, cloudy and gross.
Jeff:Right?
Leanne Whippen:Yeah.
Leanne Whippen:And I actually brown those in a pan first, and then I add my liquid to it.
Leanne Whippen:I just feel it enhances the flavor.
Leanne Whippen:And then add your celery, carrot, onion, you know, pecans, bay leaf, whatever you want to do.
Leanne Whippen:And that is the base for my gravy.
Leanne Whippen:Which brings me to gravy being my favorite part, because it goes on the stuffing and the turkey and the mashed potatoes.
Leanne Whippen:And I really believe in a really good gravy.
Leanne Whippen:And it also, if your turkey happens to be dry, it makes it a little forgiving.
Jeff:Yeah, yeah.
JT:You know.
JT:Yeah, that really good point.
JT:Yeah, absolutely.
JT:I set the livers aside, we freeze them, and I'll make a pate, or sometimes I just give it to the dog.
JT:But the gizzard, what I do is.
JT:And this is.
JT:This is a wonderful technique, as I mentioned, I put the bird on the rack of the grill, and under it, I put a pan.
JT:And in that pan, I put the neck, I put the gizzards.
JT:I trim all the excess skin from around both cavities, the tips of the wings, which are going to burn.
JT:I throw them in there.
JT:Then I throw in some carrots, some celery, an apple, either some chicken stock or water and wine.
JT:And then the herbs, sage, and whatever herbs I feel in the mood.
JT:And I fill that pan a lot with essentially, the makings of turkey soup.
JT:It's a turkey stock.
JT:And as the bird cooks, it drips.
JT:And it drips into the pan, and smoke collects on the surface of the pan.
JT:So you have this marvelous turkey stock under the bird.
JT:And so when the bird hits about 150, my target's 160.
JT:When it hits about 150, I'll pull that pan out, I'll strain it, I'll taste it.
JT:If it's fine, it's fine.
JT:If it's a little weak, I'll put it in a pot on the top of the stove and reduce it somewhat.
JT:And it's a fabulous gravy.
JT:And I don't add flour or anything to thicken it, because if you pour your regular traditional gravy with a flour base on top of turkey, it doesn't really penetrate the meat.
JT:It just sits on top.
JT:Now, it's great flavor, though, but this stock, which is thin and watery, will penetrate the meat.
JT:It adds a great deal of flavor.
JT:And it's also great for adding to the stuffing, to moisturize the stuffing.
JT:And I usually.
JT:If you do it that way, there's usually at least a quart left over after Thanksgiving, which I just drink.
JT:I pour it in a coffee mug, and it is just.
JT:I mean, it's turkey soup.
JT:It's just fantastic.
Jeff:My favorite thing on Friday, I will take a plate or a bowl, doesn't matter.
Jeff:But I will put some stuffing in it, and I will put some mashed potatoes in it, and then I just load it up with the gravy.
Jeff:This is kind of Jeff's version of what you just said, except I don't drink it.
Jeff:And I'm happy as a clam, sitting there watching college football or whatever, eating that combination of stuff.
Jeff:I mean, you know, it'll put you to sleep with that many carbs and stuff, but what a way to go.
Jeff:I just love it.
JT:I do the turkey sandwich.
JT:I take sliced turkey breast, put the cranberries on top of that, and a little gravy on top of that, and a couple of slices of bread and.
JT:Oh, man.
Jeff:Good to go.
Jeff:Good to go.
Jeff:And with your stuffing, muffins.
Jeff:To me, they're kind of like a dinner.
Jeff:Dinner dunking donut in gravy.
Jeff:You know, you have a little.
Jeff:You can have a little ramekin or something with gravy there and just.
Jeff:Yeah, you can tear them off.
Jeff:Yeah.
Jeff:No, it's.
Jeff:That's really good stuff.
JT:My wife makes a turkey pot pies after Thanksgiving.
JT:Yeah, they're really good.
JT:I mean, just like chicken pot pie.
Jeff:Yeah.
Jeff:My mom used to make turkey soup afterwards and it wasn't the best.
JT:Well, now I was mentioning the.
JT:What I put under the bird, I gotta confess.
JT:And this will probably get me kicked off the air and anybody listening will stop listening.
JT:I don't even spatchcock anymore.
JT:I break it down.
JT:I break it down into eight pieces.
JT:I separate the drumstick and the thigh from the body.
JT:I cut the breasts off the bones, I cut the wings off and I cook them individually so I can use my instant read thermometer and get those breasts and thighs at the optimum temperature.
JT:And, you know, I go to my brother in law's house and he does a Norman Rockwell turkey with the stuffing and everything.
JT:And so everybody gets to see a big beautiful bird.
JT:And I just bring mine over there in a beer cooler, keeping it hot.
JT:And it's all broken down and it's cooked that way.
JT:It's brown on all sides, it's tender, it's juicy.
JT:Each piece is cooked to optimum temperature.
JT:And when I do that, I have a carcass.
JT:And that carcass goes in that pan underneath the bird.
JT:As it cooks, I break the bones and, and that stock now is enriched with the marrow and the connective tissues.
JT:It's all in the, in between the ribs and all the bones.
JT:And so that, that, that.
JT:That's the coup de grace from my gravy.
Jeff:There you go.
Jeff:We're going to take a break.
Jeff:We're going to come.
Jeff:Well, we might go eat because this is making me know.
Jeff:I will be right back.
Jeff:You're listening to Barbecue Nation with Jeff, Leanne and Meathead.
Jeff:Hey, everybody, it's J.T.
Jeff:you know, I talk about Painted Hills all the time, and we always say beef the way nature intended.
Jeff:But it's more than that because each bite of Painted Hills will make your taste buds explode.
Jeff:Put a big bright smile on your face, and whoever's at your dinner table will have a big bright smile on their face.
Jeff:And you can thank me for that later.
Jeff:Just go to painted hillsbeef.com and find out more.
Jeff:You won't regret it.
Jeff:Hey, everybody, J.T.
Jeff:here.
Jeff:I want to tell you about the Hammerstahl knives.
Jeff:Hammerstahl combines German steel with beautiful and functioning designs.
Jeff:They're part of the Heritage Steel Group, which also does their pots and pans.
Jeff:So go to heritagesteel us.
Jeff:Check out the Hammerstahl knives.
Jeff:If you're really into cooking, I think you're really going to like them.
Jeff:Welcome back to Barbecue Nation.
Jeff:I'm JT along with hall of Famer Leanne Whippen and hall of Famer Meathead from AmazingRibs.com Again, we'd like to thank the folks at Painter Hills Natural Beef, the Oregon Dungeness Crab Commission, and pig powder.
Jeff:Can you use pig powder on turkey, Leanne?
Leanne Whippen:You sure can.
Jeff:Yeah.
Leanne Whippen:It's excellent on turkey, but, you know, I like more savory turkey, like sagey, you know, earthy.
Leanne Whippen:And I'm going to have to go to Meathead for his poultry seasoning, because I love that.
JT:I love you.
JT:And I use that stuff, too.
Leanne Whippen:It really is delicious.
Leanne Whippen:And you know what?
Leanne Whippen:Even in.
Leanne Whippen:Even in the stuffing, that's.
JT:That's very French and it's very Leanne because you have classic chef palette, and the French have.
JT:They call it poultry seasoning.
JT:And basically, that's what my chicken rub is.
JT:It's poultry seasoning.
Leanne Whippen:Yeah.
JT:You know, and it's got my own little twist on it, but you've been very generous in praising it.
JT:And when you run out, let me know.
JT:I'll ship you a refund.
Leanne Whippen:Oh, thank you.
Leanne Whippen:But anyway, pink powder.
Leanne Whippen:Yeah, it's good if you want sweet with a little heat, it's excellent.
Leanne Whippen:And you have to give it a very.
Leanne Whippen:You know, this is true for a turkey.
Leanne Whippen:You have a lot of meat underneath.
Leanne Whippen:So when you season your bird, you need to season it as much as that will hold, because your meat to skin ratio, you won't taste the spices if you don't spice it up enough, even with salt and pepper.
Leanne Whippen:You got to hit it pretty hard.
Leanne Whippen:So don't under season your turkey.
Jeff:There you go.
Jeff:Meathead.
Jeff:Do you add something you wanted to address?
JT:Yeah, there's.
JT:I just wanted to.
JT:Forgive me for being a little maudlin or philosophical, but I think Thanksgiving is the coolest of all the holidays, because now I know some people will do a ham or maybe, you know, some sort of goose or something else for Thanksgiving, but raviolis or something.
JT:But most of us cook turkey, and most of us have cranberries, and most of us have sweet potatoes.
JT:And it's a menu that most of us share all across this country, regardless of politics, race, religion, all the division that we've just had over an election, we hold hands on Thursday, and we eat the same meal, we break bread together, we rejoice together over the same food.
JT:It's like one big, giant family dinner.
JT:And I just don't know of any society, any race, religion, country around the world that has anything similar, and I think it's just truly marvelous, and it makes it a special holiday.
JT:Especially since for those of us who love food and who love cooking, it's a holiday that is centered around food.
JT:And we have many other holidays which are religious or, you know, Fourth of July, which is, you know, essentially political.
JT:But this is a food holiday.
JT:It's our holiday.
JT:And I just think it's unequaled and really inspirational.
Jeff:I would agree with you there.
Jeff:I think that I don't.
Jeff:Don't send emails to me, folks.
Jeff:Christmas.
Jeff:Christmas.
Jeff:Can.
Jeff:Christmas dinner, not.
Jeff:Not the event of Christmas, of having family around stuff.
Jeff:But Christmas dinner to me is a very nice, very wonderful thing.
Jeff:But usually at the end of Christmas dinner, I'm exhausted.
Jeff:I don't.
Jeff:And I don't know what the difference is.
Jeff:I cook just as much food at Christmas as I do at Thanksgiving.
Jeff:But I would agree with you that Thanksgiving is centered around the food and giving thanks, period.
Jeff:There's not a lot of attachments to it, like gift giving and trying to make it Mabel's by two.
Jeff:And so we can get out of there at four and go to mom and Dad's at six or whatever.
Jeff:And we've all suffered through that in our lives at Christmas.
Jeff:And I say that kind of tongue in cheek, but I really think that Thanksgiving is a way to give thanks.
Jeff:And speaking of that, you both know something I did a couple weeks ago, but I would say this, if you know anybody that's having trouble, and especially a veteran, maybe they don't want to come to your house, maybe they can't, whatever, fix them something to eat.
Jeff:There's, you know, £150 million of leftovers on Thanksgiving.
Jeff:Fix a plate for somebody and take it and find them and give it to them.
Jeff:That may be the only real meal they have for days.
Jeff:I don't know.
Jeff:And everybody's situation is unique, but I've really become a champion of that, if you will, because I think that it pisses me off to see anybody go hungry, but it meant more so.
Jeff:And this is my own selfish reasons because of my family and stuff, but to see veterans who served our country and served us, and we could certainly serve them a few meals.
JT:Well, you still are.
JT:And I should point out that you were recently given a special award by the Clark County Veterans Assistance center for that work that you do for veterans.
JT:And that is so cool.
JT:And it was a very special event.
JT:I saw a video of it.
JT:I mean, there weren't 20 guys getting this award.
JT:It was you.
JT:And that is so admirable.
JT:And I thank you and the country thanks you this year for the first time since it's at my brother in law's house.
JT:He is inviting two training sailors from the Glenview Naval Air Station, which is north of Chicago.
JT:The orphans, you know, they're up, they're up there training and for Thanksgiving.
JT:And a lot of those trainees go home, but some can't go home.
JT:You know, there's.
JT:It's too far.
JT:They can't afford it or whatever.
JT:So he's having two of them over.
Jeff:That's nice.
JT:And I think, I think that's very cool of him.
Jeff:Yeah, I, you know, I'll say it again if he can.
Jeff:The term giving thanks, which is what the holiday is around for, and thanks for our country.
Jeff:I just think it's important.
Jeff:If you can help out a veteran there with a good meal, do it.
Jeff:There you go.
Jeff:I'll get off my soapbox now.
Jeff:So anyway.
Jeff:All right, we've got about a minute and a half left, but after hours is coming up with some very interesting questions that we're going to test Leanne and Meathead with favorite pie.
Jeff:And do you make excess pies so you have one?
Jeff:I've said this before on the show.
JT:What is this term, excess pie?
Jeff:Well, it's kind of a can.
JT:I've never heard of such a thing.
Jeff:Yeah, okay.
Jeff:Well, I was trying to think of the right term.
Jeff:Sarcastically.
Jeff:I was gonna.
Jeff:I make an extra.
Jeff:But this year I'm not going to.
Jeff:But I always make an extra pecan piece and I put it in our outdoor fridge and nobody knows that's there except me.
Jeff:My wife doesn't eat pecan pie, so I'm a happy camper.
Jeff:And I've got pecan pie from Thursday to Sunday, you know what I mean?
Jeff:And there's an extra bowl of each day of handmade whipped cream.
Jeff:Or I get a fresh tub of ice cream and stash it out there, depending on what I want.
Jeff:And that's the way I handle it.
JT:Now, exactly where is this outdoor fridge?
Jeff:Leanne knows.
JT:Leanne knows.
JT:Because pecan is my favorite pie, too.
Jeff:Leanne knows.
Leanne Whippen:Yeah, it is my favorite pie, too.
Leanne Whippen:So let's not eat together.
Leanne Whippen:We'll have a problem.
Leanne Whippen:And I do make like when I get a count, a head count on how many people are going to be there.
Leanne Whippen:I don't make the exact amount of slices.
Leanne Whippen:You know, a one on one ratio, it's usually 2 to 1 because sometimes people want to try both of them.
Leanne Whippen:So you kind of slice in half.
Leanne Whippen:And it's always been a problem in our family.
Leanne Whippen:Are the pies because that's where the argument starts.
Leanne Whippen:Albeit, Thanksgiving or not, that's where the argument starts.
Leanne Whippen:So I kind of make.
Leanne Whippen:I make excess pies, not just because I like to eat pie after Thanksgiving, but just to avoid the arguments.
Jeff:Yeah.
JT:Well, I talked about my wife and her niece and their PI Day.
JT:And because there's so many, I think it's around 14 of them this year is scheduled.
JT:There is quite a lot of pie.
Leanne Whippen:Yeah.
JT:And of course, I feel obligated to try them all.
JT:Yeah.
Jeff:Oh yeah.
Jeff:Yeah.
Jeff:Oh, yeah.
Jeff:Oh yeah.
JT:And I mean, there's always the three traditional, apple, pumpkin and pecan, but they often do one or two or three more and there's always plenty.
JT:And oh, boy, that is a great way to top off this marvelous meal.
Jeff:Absolutely.
Jeff:I throw in a cherry pie and I also throw in a cream cheese pie, which is very simple, folks.
Jeff:I'll tell you, the recipe is here.
Jeff:You don't even have to write it down.
Jeff:You take one of those small cans of condensed milk and 18 ounce brick of cream cheese and a couple of drops of lemon in there.
Jeff:You gotta wait till the cream cheese can be beat up and stuff.
Jeff:So it's gotta, you know, warm up a bit.
Jeff:Anyway, beat that up with that condensed milk in there, pour it in a graham cracker crust and put it in their fridge the day before.
Jeff:So it.
Jeff:Cause it takes a while for it to set up one of the richest pies you'll ever eat.
Jeff:And you can put cherries, strawberries, blueberries.
Jeff:No berries, whatever you want.
JT:Kiwi.
Jeff:Put it all on top there.
Jeff:Anyway, we got to get out of here, but we will be sticking around, all three of us for after hours.
Jeff:Meathead, thank you.
JT:As always, thank you and best wishes to you and all your listeners and Leanne for a delicious and thankful Thanksgiving and always fun to talk to you.
Leanne Whippen:Happy Thanksgiving to you both and all of our listeners.
Jeff:Yeah.
Jeff:So here's what's going to happen, folks.
Jeff:This show airs right before Thanksgiving.
Jeff:And so on Thanksgiving weekend, we'll be doing a best of show.
Jeff:So I hope you enjoy your family and the football.
Jeff:Stay out of the malls and Black Friday events for your own public safety and enjoy the weekend.
Jeff:Until then, take care.
Jeff:And remember, don't Forget, go to AmazingRibs.com to find out all the stuff Meathead's talking about.
Jeff:And remember, it's most important on this holiday.
Jeff:Turn it, don't burn it.
Jeff:See you next time.
Jeff:Barbecue Nation is produced by JTSD LLC Productions in association with Salem Media Group.
Jeff:All rights reserved.
