Steven Raichlen, Author, journalist, lecturer, and tv host - Afterhours Encore
This podcast episode delves into the intricate art of grilling vegetables and fruits, illuminating the various techniques and flavor enhancements that can be achieved through smoking. We engage in a profound discussion with culinary luminaries Leanne Whippen and Steven Raichlen, who share their expertise on the optimal preparation methods for an array of vegetables, including bell peppers and corn, as well as the innovative practice of smoking unconventional items such as lettuce and cocktails. The episode emphasizes the importance of simplicity in grilling, advocating for an appreciation of the innate flavors of ingredients rather than overwhelming them with complexity. Furthermore, we explore the delightful results that can be attained by employing smoking techniques on fruits, revealing how they can elevate traditional recipes to unprecedented heights. This conversation not only serves to inspire culinary experimentation but also underscores the boundless possibilities inherent in the realm of barbecuing.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Painted Hills Natural Beef
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
Welcome to Barbecue Nation with JT And Leanne.
Speaker A:After Hours, the conversation that continued after the show was done.
Speaker A:Hey, everybody, it's JT and this is a special version of Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:It is brought to you in part by Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker A:Beef you can be proud to serve your family and friends.
Speaker A:That's Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker A:Welcome to After Hours here on Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:I'm JT along with hall of famers today, two of them, Leanne Whippen and Steven Raichlen.
Speaker A:We were talking when we ended the show a little bit about vegetables.
Speaker A:Are you an oil guy or a non oil guy?
Speaker A:Stephen?
Speaker A:Like on peppers, I see peppers and corn, the two most vegetables, if you will, that get cooked on a grill for most people.
Speaker B:So for corn, I grill it naked, that is, with the husk off, and I baste it either with extra virgin olive oil or melted butter, salt and pepper, and it's a direct grill.
Speaker B:I know there's a lot of theories about take the husk off, put the husk back on.
Speaker B:I'm a husk off guy, except when I'm cavemanning.
Speaker B:And then I will actually put the corn in the husk directly on the embers.
Speaker B:Bell peppers, I never bother oiling or buttering or anything.
Speaker B:They just go directly in the fire.
Speaker B:Because what you're going to do is you're going to burn the skin and driving the smoke into the pepper flesh and you're going to scrape the burnt skin off anyway.
Speaker B:So there's no.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Leanne, do you have a favorite grilled veggie?
Speaker C:Asparagus?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah, It's.
Speaker C:It's definitely my favorite broccolini, you know, but those are things you have to be careful with, too.
Speaker B:I have a neat way to do asparagus.
Speaker B:I picked it up in Japan.
Speaker B:And what they do is they'll pin four or five stalks together to make a raft.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Pin them crosswalks.
Speaker B:And it's much easier to turn four rafts than it is to turn 20 individual stalks.
Speaker C:I like that.
Speaker B:I based with sesame oil, sprinkle with salt and pepper.
Speaker B:Super simple again, it's just you let the beautiful, vibrant flavor of the vegetable do the talk.
Speaker A:That brings up a point.
Speaker A:I wanted to cover in the main show, but it got away from me.
Speaker A:It happens these days.
Speaker A:When you said super simple, do you think sometimes some of the folks out there are making things a touch too complicated?
Speaker A:I try to keep things very basic.
Speaker B:For me, I always take a geographic approach and simplicity.
Speaker B:That's Japan, that's Argentina.
Speaker B:That's Turkey complexity.
Speaker B:That would be Indonesia, Thailand, India, where every barbecue dish has a very elaborate marinade with fish sauce or with Indian spices or with yogurt.
Speaker B:And one is not better the other than the other.
Speaker B:You know, they're just different.
Speaker B:And as the current say, beef.
Speaker B:Nadine.
Speaker A:Okay, I want to talk about to something you brought up.
Speaker A:And you were actually the first person I ever saw do this, but you smoked lettuce.
Speaker A:Now, the lettuce that I was around, that they smoked in college, was not lettuce.
Speaker A:But in real life out there, you've.
Speaker A:You've smoked lettuce, you've smoked cocktails.
Speaker A:You have a smoker gun, I think, that you developed or worked with the development of to smoke cocktails.
Speaker A:How does that enhance, like, the flavor of lettuce?
Speaker A:I mean, because I envision people.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I will.
Speaker A:I've tried it once.
Speaker A:It was fine.
Speaker A:But I envision people at home trying it and maybe walking away from their smoker or their grill for a little too long.
Speaker A:They come back and they've just got this black lump there because they haven't been paying attention, which happens more than we care to admit, I think.
Speaker A:But how did you tell us, walk us through that, how you came up with all that stuff?
Speaker B:Yeah, Well, I was writing a book called Project Smoke.
Speaker B:And in Project Smoke, you know, I wanted to cover all the standards, the basics, like brisket, like ribs, like pork shoulder.
Speaker B:But I also wanted to show people how smoke could enhance a number of foods you wouldn't think of smoking.
Speaker B:Like cocktails, for example, or even like salads.
Speaker B:Now, this is just an accent, a little hint of smoke.
Speaker B:And I call smoke the umami of barbecue.
Speaker B:And a hint of smoke can give you an entirely new perspective on a food you've eaten all that time.
Speaker B:Like, I also smoke ice cream.
Speaker B:And when you smoke vanilla ice cream, it winds up tasting like the roasted marshmallow in s'mores.
Speaker B:Really an amazing effect.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But you know, smoke, you know, it's.
Speaker B:I call it the.
Speaker B:The magic sit up and take notice ingredient.
Speaker B:Well, if you smoke a commonplace food that you don't normally think of smoking, it can give you a whole new appreciation, I will say, about the smoked lettuce.
Speaker B:Now, it also depends on the kind of lettuce, right?
Speaker B:Because if you've got iceberg lettuce, I think you're much better off cutting it in wedges and direct grilling it over a high heat.
Speaker B:Ditto for romaine lettuce, where you get kind of a char on the edges.
Speaker B:But you Keep the lettuce crunchy and fresh and raw in the center, but with a softer leaf.
Speaker B:Lettuce, like, you know, butter lettuce or Boston lettuce, just put.
Speaker B:You smoke it just for a minute or two, and you just give it tiny little smoke flavor that, you know, makes it taste otherworldly.
Speaker A:You're just making me hungry is all.
Speaker A:That's all I can say.
Speaker A:And the last thing here, fruit.
Speaker A:Now, Meathead showed me something, oh, a year or two ago, and I actually did it for a couple recipes and for a TV show I was doing where he took cherry tomatoes.
Speaker A:He poked little holes in them, put them on his smoker, left them on there for.
Speaker A:I'd have to look.
Speaker A:But I just tell they.
Speaker A:They ended up looking like a raisin or if it was a cranberry, be a craisin.
Speaker A:And I used them on a pizza, and I've used them on salads.
Speaker A:I thought they were delicious because the sugars come out and all that.
Speaker A:It works really good.
Speaker A:But on.
Speaker A:On fruits that people think of, like, you know, apples or plums or something like that, do you just put them on there and let them get a touch, or do you smoke them for a prescribed period of time?
Speaker B:Well, it really depends very much on the fruit and the smoking method.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Because there are dozens of different methods of smoking for me.
Speaker B:Apples.
Speaker B:I do a bacon, bourbon, apple crisp that is actually smoke roasted in an indirect grill situation.
Speaker B:I do my version of a baked apple, smoked apple, where it's hollowed out and stuffed with butter and cinnamon, brown sugar and ground nuts.
Speaker B:And that's, again, an indirect grill rather than a pure smoked version.
Speaker B:Pineapple.
Speaker B:I tend to grill over high heat and get the smoke flavor from caramelizing the sugar on the outside.
Speaker B:You know, I'll dip the pineapple slice, brush it with butter, dip it in sugar, and cook it.
Speaker B:So that's a different kind of smoked flavor.
Speaker B:And I guess that's what's.
Speaker B:You know, what's so amazing about barbecuing?
Speaker B:Grilling.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's basically cooking food with live fire.
Speaker B:But there's so many hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of different variations, and all of them lead to deliciousness.
Speaker A:Leanne, what's your favorite fruit to work with?
Speaker C:I like grilled peaches and grilled pineapple.
Speaker C:Like he said, direct heat.
Speaker C:And, yeah, it's.
Speaker C:It brings out the natural sugars.
Speaker C:And so those are my two favorite.
Speaker A:Didn't we do some grilled pineapple last fall when you were up there?
Speaker C:We may have.
Speaker A:We did a Lot of stuff in five days.
Speaker A:So I.
Speaker A:Forgive me if I don't remember everything, but I.
Speaker A:I have some grilled.
Speaker C:I was doing food styling for a television commercial and did grilled mangoes for that, and they were very good.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:It sounds delicious.
Speaker A:Stephen, is there anything you haven't tried yet?
Speaker A:And I know it's kind of a weird question, but something you've been thinking about, but you haven't got close to the grill with it yet, and it's on your radar.
Speaker A:You know, when you get up to Martha's Vineyard and you have five minutes, is there something you want to try to work on that you haven't tried yet?
Speaker B:Well, you know, years ago, I would have said ice cream, but I figured out how to smoke that.
Speaker B:And then I would have said sushi, you know, which by its very nature is raw.
Speaker B:But in fact, a lot of sushi chefs will take a blowtorch to sushi just to add a little kind of smoky finish and crisp the.
Speaker B:Crisp the fat at the end.
Speaker B:So I think at this point it'd be pretty.
Speaker B:I'd be pretty hard pressed to name a few.
Speaker B:I haven't tried to grill or smoke at some point.
Speaker B:I mean, everything from mayonnaise to mustard to, you know, you name it.
Speaker B:And I would say at this point, when I get up to Martha's Vineyard, man, we.
Speaker B:The seafood is so fantastic up there, though.
Speaker B:I'm looking forward to line caught swordfish on a wood burning grill with fried capers on top.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's my standard go to.
Speaker B:Or I'm hoping that maybe somebody has a few of the last season's base scallops in their vein.
Speaker B:You know, those are just delicious on the plancha.
Speaker B:But, you know, the beauty of grilling now, when I was growing up, it was just, you know, you burnt an animal protein, but now we grill everything.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:God bless.
Speaker A:One, One thing you mentioned there, I think capers are highly underrated, especially in the barbecue world.
Speaker A:I happen to really like capers.
Speaker A:You know, that's kind of an oddball thing to say, but I really do like capers.
Speaker A:My wife can't stand them, but if she's not paying attention, she'll find capers in.
Speaker A:In various dishes that I prepare.
Speaker A:You like capers, Leanne?
Speaker B:Love them.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And especially Steven said, I love them fried.
Speaker A:Love them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I could just like take little, little.
Speaker B:Salty, salty, salty, tart bursts of flavor.
Speaker B:That's what a caper is.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:It sort of makes you think of mustard, it makes you think of salt Makes you thinks of anchovies in a way, but in a good way.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Capers rock.
Speaker A:Are you coming up to the Northwest this year?
Speaker B:I don't have any plans to now, but my wife is jonesing to see an exhibit in Seattle, and so usually when she gets a desire to see something, I figure out a trip, how to make it happen.
Speaker B:So hopefully I'll get to see you guys at some point.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Are you working on any shows?
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:I think last time we spoke you were.
Speaker B:Yeah, we're working on season two of Planet Barbecue, the newest series.
Speaker B:And I'm also working on a new book, which is kind of a departure for me.
Speaker B:It's called Project Quantum, and it's a book about cooking on hot metal slabs, sometimes some of which will be positioned on a barbecue grill so you can smoke and griddle at the same time.
Speaker B:And some of which are just freestanding griddles that are taking their place next to the barbecue grill and more and more American backyards.
Speaker B:And that's a very exciting book for me because it brought a whole new host of foods into my repertory that I don't usually grill.
Speaker B:Like breakfasts, for example, like sandwiches, for example.
Speaker B:And, you know, it's also, after writing about straight grilling and barbecue for.
Speaker B:For 30 years, it's nice to be.
Speaker B:Nice to be doing something different.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B: d that'll be out in spring of: Speaker A:That picture behind me is an idea that Leanne gave me.
Speaker A:It's a grilled Mac and cheese and bacon sandwich, so.
Speaker B:Oh, I love it.
Speaker B:No wonder I've been.
Speaker B:No, no wonder my stomach's been rumbling the whole time.
Speaker A:It's all good.
Speaker A:Well, Stephen, we will let you go because I know you've got to finish up to get out of town there.
Speaker A:Oh, one last question about your books.
Speaker A:Are you going to do another novel?
Speaker B:I'm working on another novel, as a matter of fact, and I'm hoping, you know, it's kind of a busy time for me, May and June with barbecue season, but I'm hoping to dig into that next summer.
Speaker A:Oh, good for you.
Speaker C:Fantastic.
Speaker A:And why don't you lay your website on them again one more time before we go?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:It's barbecuebible.com that's B A R B E C E B I B L e dot com.
Speaker B:And if you want to follow me on Instagram or Facebook or TikTok, it's Evenreichman.
Speaker B:And that's S T E V E N R A I C H L E N Sign up for the up and Smoke newsletter and look for me on public television with shows like Planet Barbecue, Project Fire, Project Smoke, and look for the new Beer Can Chicken Book.
Speaker C:Can't wait.
Speaker A:And I'll be sending you our addresses when we get off the show.
Speaker A:When we get off the air here today.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:We'll get those samples out to you.
Speaker B:Thanks a lot, guys.
Speaker B:It's always a pleasure talking to you guys.
Speaker B:You know, you, too.
Speaker C:Enjoy your time in Martha's Vineyard.
Speaker C:For sure.
Speaker A:We're jealous.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker A:We'll be back next week with another edition of Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:Until then, go out at after hours.
Speaker A:I should say go out, have some fun.
Speaker A:Barbecue or grill something.
Speaker A:And remember our motto, turn it, don't burn it.
Speaker A:Take care, everybody.
